Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Harrogate Engines  (Read 8829 times)

Bunkerbarge

  • Guest
Harrogate Engines
« on: May 02, 2008, 12:05:50 am »

I've finally finished a project that I have been putting together for the Harrogate Model Engineering show so I thought I would stick a couple of pictures on here.

It is simply a display of model steam engines for boat use, all powered through a little manifold, fed from a compressor under ther table.  The base and the engine plinths are all pieces of deck teak offcuts, varnished with some satin polyurethane and the manifold was made from a lump of hex brass drilled to takes the valves and the pressure gauge.  As it proved to be too difficult to try to solder the valves in I went for the good old araldite route.  Quick and easy and it's not going above 50 psi so plenty strong enough.

The engines are a Hemmens 'V' four Caton, a Monahan models Heron, a Hemmens 'v'twin Richmond and a Hansen in line twin piston valve.
Logged

bogstandard

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2008, 05:09:56 am »

Very nice Richard, I will come and see them in person at Harrogate.

John
Logged

Bernhard

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2008, 06:49:59 am »

WOOOW......what boat will you use the Monahan in,,,,,,,,,

Bernhard
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2008, 12:18:55 pm »

To be honest I really haven't decided yet.  I actually bought the Hemmens Caton to go in my Envoy tug but as soon as I saw it I realised that it has to be on display in an open hull!!

The Monahan model also has to be in an open hull as it is beautiful to watch it in operation and it would be a crime to hide it.
Logged

catengineman

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2008, 12:23:03 pm »

Just speachless :D


Fantastic

R,
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2008, 06:48:19 am »

Thanks for the comments guys.
Logged

boatmadman

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,703
  • Location: South Cumbria
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2008, 10:28:02 am »

Green with envy AND speechless!

Ian
Logged
if at first you dont succeed.....have a beer.....

ian kennedy

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 12:19:39 am »

Hi Bunkerbarge,

A very nice array of engines indeed.
Just out of interest how much was the Heron engine and how long did delivery take? as i am considering buing a pair for a future project.

Cheers
Ian
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 08:07:42 am »

Hi Bunkerbarge,

A very nice array of engines indeed.
Just out of interest how much was the Heron engine and how long did delivery take? as i am considering buing a pair for a future project.

Cheers
Ian

Thanks Ian, The Monahan web site lists all current prices here:

http://www.monahansteammodels.com/

They make items in a batch so it is worth contacting them for a delivery date of a specific item.  Mine was on the shelf so delivery was extreemly quick.
Logged

ian kennedy

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 06:58:21 pm »

Thanks for the link

I should have looked at other posts as the main man has posted info for the heron engine..Dohhhh !!!
Logged

andywright

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 546
  • Location: Upper Boat, Pontypridd, S Wales
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2008, 09:35:02 pm »

whats the Hemmens like, I am thinking of putting one in a 40 inch solent launch from Metcalfe mouldings.

Andy Wright
Logged
Navigational Aids vessel Master. Old Conway 70-72

oiler

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 62
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2008, 02:09:41 am »

very nice engines! TBH most engines are a shame to put into a closed hull. Said most not all. I'm now looking to buy a Stuart D-10 to put into a hull but after seeing a video of it... it would be a shame to.

Sure would like to see a video of your engines running.
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2008, 02:38:24 am »

very nice engines! TBH most engines are a shame to put into a closed hull. Said most not all. I'm now looking to buy a Stuart D-10 to put into a hull but after seeing a video of it... it would be a shame to.

Sure would like to see a video of your engines running.

Now there's an interesting thought.  It will have to wait until I am at home but I can give it a go!
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2008, 02:51:46 am »

whats the Hemmens like, I am thinking of putting one in a 40 inch solent launch from Metcalfe mouldings.

Andy Wright

The Hemmens engine is a robust, compact and relatively powerfull engine.  The "V" configuration was perfect for me as I wanted to get the engine into a very small space to enable the boiler flue to be as close to below the funnel as possible.

I have had some very impressive speeds from my steamer with a Richmond engine pushing about 35lbs of very blunt hull at a very deep draught through the water.  It is responsive, smooth, controls nicely down to a very low presure and revs and reverses reliably.  The construction is simple and neat and a nice little water pump can be fitted if you want.

Down sides are oscillators do use quite a bit of steam but only if you are hammering it around too much.  Stick to scale speeds and it wont be a problem.  I would rather the cylinder covers were fastened with screws rather than being a tight interference fit and mine has been back to John Hemmens twice to rectify leakage at the control valve face.  Since it was refurbished last time I have not steamed it so I cannot say whether the attention it recieved has resolved the leaks but there is always going to be a degree of leakage at a face to face lapped contact.  I remain unconvinced that a brass to aluminium joint face is the best combination but John Hemmens assures me that it will work well if set up correctly.

Leakage at this face is not as big an issue in a launch as it is in an enclosed hull anyway so it should not prove to be too much of an issue for you.

Bottom line I think it is a great little engine and will push a 40" launch around very easily.
Logged

andywright

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 546
  • Location: Upper Boat, Pontypridd, S Wales
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2008, 10:16:56 am »

Bunkerbarge, thanks for that I am on the verge of making an offer for one. There doesn't seem to be much else about allthough on ebay this morning I saw this,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260282991280&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016
the engine would fit I think, but it would need a different boiler, a vertical possibly
Regards Andy
Logged
Navigational Aids vessel Master. Old Conway 70-72

sheerline

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Location: Norfolk
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2008, 10:24:06 pm »

Hi Bunkerbarge re- your comment about leaky valve faces on oscillators, when I built my 60deg Vtwin (see' junk box engine' on 'other hobbies' section, I did not use springs behind the valve face to retain and tension the cylinders. I used small silicone 'O' rings instead and tightened the retaining nuts whilst the engine was run at different speeds and loads to gain optimum sealing and friction. The valve faces were  flattened and polished prior to fitting and to date the engine has in total been run about six hours  without fault. I am able to load this machine very heavily and at around 25psi there is virtually no leakage, at normal loads and slower rpm I get none at all and off load, the engine is capable of less than 60rpm which is a good indication of minimum friction.
I know you love your engines as much as I love mine but as mine was purely an experimental unit I was happy to play around with different methods rather than stick to traditional ones and it has certainly paid off.
I will admit, unlike yours, my little unit is hardly a masterpiece of engineering and would be quite happy living in the engine room covered in oil and out of sight. Perhaps one day I will treat myself to an old smokey type tug and fit the thing out with my engine......one day.
Logged

Martin (Admin)

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23,995
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2008, 11:37:34 pm »


I don't much about steam engines .... but that looks like a lot of power for a simple plank boat!
    ... and shouldn't they all be round the same way - 90o?!? ......

                              "They're always someone around that lowers the tone!"


No, but seriously, Nice display BB!   O0
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!" -  Visit the Mayhem FaceBook Groups!  &  Giant Models

oiler

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 62
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2008, 02:40:30 am »

Got my popcorn ready.. just waiting for the movie to start.

Sorry to hear your Caton leaks on occasion. I must have run at least 6 or 7 gallons through mine and haven't had a problem.. YET.. knock on wood.
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2008, 10:30:36 am »

I have never steamed the Caton and, from what I can see of it's condition, I suspect that it has never been steamed.  I am going to have a go with it during my next time at home but from what i see of the Caton running on air it is a superb engine and can run incredibly slowly. 

The one thing that has been a challenge is the control valve of the Richmond.  I want to steam it this time home and see if John Hemmens has been able to rectify the leaks I have experienced in the past from this item.  The leak was from the face to face joint of the valve body with the valve disc.

The actual cylinder port faces do not seem to be a problem and I have not noticed much in the way of leaks from these areas but Sheerlines ideas on using "O" Rings is certainly interesting.  I'm not sure though just where the "O" Rings are located and, if being used on the ports, how they are prevented from being damaged by the sliding port faces.  I would appreciate it if you could tell me a bit more about where you have put the "O" Rings.

Having never done a video in my life you might need a lot of popcorn but I do have a digital camera that will take video so I will have a play when I get home in a couple of weeks time.
Logged

walrus

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines/video
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2008, 08:54:58 pm »

Have a very under used sony digital video camera that you could make use of to make a video if you wish.
And if you need any help I shall be arround until mid December.
See you soon
Alan
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2008, 09:18:22 pm »

I'll see you soon guys.  Try to generate some enthusiasm for the night sail, I don't want to be on my own!!
Logged

sheerline

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Location: Norfolk
Re: Harrogate Engines
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2008, 11:25:13 pm »

Hi Bunkergarge, I can't take the engine apart right now otherwise I would send you a pic but its fairly straightforward.
What I have done it to eliminate the cylinder tensioning springs at the back end of the ported static faceplate, that then leaves just the cylinder pivoting shaft poking out the back' I slid an M4 washer onto the shaft followed by a silicone 'O' ring and then another M4 washer followed by the cylinder pivot retaining nut, this now means the 'O' ring is simply acting as a cushion. Careful adjustment of the nut allows the cylinder and static valve faces to be brought together and by not having a spring at the back, so prevents the cylinder face from being blown off the static valve face under higher pressures and loads. I slightly modified the setup after conducting running tests by machining a pair of cupped washers which replaced the pair of outer M4 washers. This idea held the 'o' rings in shape and prevented them from deforming under load. Once adjustments were completed, I followed up with a couple of locknuts so it never goes out of adjustment.
A very simple idea which appears to work very well.
Logged

walrus

  • Guest
Re: Harrogate Engines/night race KMBC
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2008, 09:00:10 pm »

Do not have craft with lights but will try to motivate those who do to get out on the water
See you there
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.222 seconds with 17 queries.