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[David_S]

I have been thinking of ordering a kit to keep me busy over the coming winter, but am amazed at the low-tech approach some companies seem to have towards customers' orders. Model Slipway have a fine website detailing their excellent models, but when it comes to placing an order for one, you are told that:

Orders may be placed
• By mail to Model Slipway, 77 Arundell Drive, Lundwood, Barnsley S71 5LE, U.K
• By telephone or fax: UK 01226 770008 – International +44 1226 770008

No on-line shop, then? No e-mail orders? Pay Pal accepted, but only up to £150. Do they really have such good sales figures that they can afford to alienate potential customers like this?

If I could have ordered on-line this evening, the deed would have been done. The prospect of filling out and printing, then posting, an order to the UK, or finding a museum with a working fax machine, or, even worse, making a telephone call, has postponed my decision.

And people sometimes ask me why I emigrated!


Topic renamed - Martin.

[nhp651]

think of it from the company's prospective.
you want all that modern technology, you have to pay for it in the price of the model kit.
so we'll sling another £100 on the price of a model.
you don't buy it because it's too expensive.
the company doesn't sell it's products that it has spent thousands on developing.
the company goes bust.
you can't have it both ways, and the way the "credit crunch" is going at the moment, I would't be surprised if these manufacturers who bring us such lovely products, are just about keeping their heads above the water, and feeling the pinch just a little bit.
think yourself lucky to be able to afford to splash out on a model, a lot of people, especially the older generation in this country at the moment can't afford such luxuries when the price of necessities are going through the roof.
have a heart and see it from their side before making such comments..

[J.beazley]

Cant fault them for service though.......

Like my old dear keeps telling me "a phone call goes a long way"

[David_S]

Does it really cost so much to allow e-mail ordering? Or even an on-line shop; every man and his dog seems to have them these days.

I know the products are first-class; that's why I want to order from them, but they seem to go out of their way to make life difficult for the customer.

I guess I just need somewhere to let off steam. They have lost a £220 order this evening, does that really them keep their heads above water?

[Martin (Admin)]

I know we all love the convenience of on-line shopping but the cost of setup, maintenance and manning of
on-line shopping are quite considerable, ask anyone that has set one up! Having said that, I've use some on-line
shops and had to chase them up again and again. The most annoying thing about on-line shops as apposed to
a phone call, an on-line shop will sometimes take your money without the product being in stock!  >:(

[ronkh]

Told you eh?!!? Gurr yap yap.

Modern technology is something we all have on this site. Its called a computer and they have most likely had one for years for email orders. Some companies do not bother setting up a site but rely on word of mouth or catalogues etc for trade, then expect you to order. I call them cheapskates.
Not sure what part they have spent thousands on in developing, but I doubt it is in computers. A lot of their products come from other companies, as in Amati - Coral - Victory - Billing - Caldercraft - Krick to name but a very small amount.
On a lighter note David, I have just placed an order for much needed parts from Cornwall Models.co.uk or try Westbourne-model.co.uk to name just two. No problems at all and good luck on whatever you splash out on. Spend your hard earned cash how you like and do not feel guilty about it. I couldn't count a model as a luxury, more as an expensive past-time. Either way, take heart and carry on. I hope these two addresses help you. Plenty more that do the same and do not charge extra for getting business. If the credit crunch was hurting so bad, we wouldn't be buying and they wouldn't be selling. Let me know how you get on mate.

Regards,

Ron.

[dougal99]

Which Century are we living in? Good question. But what does it mean?

I've recently been charged twice for a hotel room in the US probably because I had the temerity to use the phone in my room. The computer saw two different amounts and whirred away. The, very young, girl in reception was too busy talking on her mobile (cell?) whilst processing me checking out to notice the situation. I've emailed the hotel pointing out the situation and asking for rectification but after 48 hours zippo. 

So a lot of modern equipment, and apparent speed, but very little old fashioned service. I know which I prefer 

Doug

[nhp651]

A rather flippant answer from you Ronkh who works for an organisation that spends more on development in a year than the Gross national Product of most third world countries!!!
As for a model boat being a luxury, ???? well pehaps to you, No,
But to a pensioner who is on the breadline with having to pay over the national inflation rate for Community charge, gas and electric, water rates, food and every goddam other nescesity that comes from their meager pensions, YES!! a model boat is a luxury"!!!
As for thousands in development costs...that is taken up in time, moneys for moulds,materials, production machinery and all other items that have to be laid out before even a single penny starts coming in.
I KNOW because I have been there first hand, and I wouldn't do it again ......far too many ungreatfull sods around that just haven't a b****y clue???

[David_S]

Well, living outside the UK, I have no idea of what the 'credit crunch' really involves other than being a catchy line to sell newspapers, but I do know that I have been buying goods on-line for the best part of 15 years, and to expect buyers to select goods from an internet catalogue and then order by post, fax, or telephone is a hopelessly out of date concept.

I would have thought that if times were hard, then companies would be actively encouraging customers rather than making them jump through hoops to spend their decreasing amounts of hard-earned cash.

[DickyD]

Told you eh?!!? Gurr yap yap.

Spend your hard earned cash how you like and do not feel guilty about it. I couldn't count a model as a luxury, more as an expensive past-time. Either way, take heart and carry on. I hope these two addresses help you. Plenty more that do the same and do not charge extra for getting business. If the credit crunch was hurting so bad, we wouldn't be buying and they wouldn't be selling. Let me know how you get on mate.

Regards,

Ron.

Would you like to borrow my shovel ronkh to dig yourself a bigger hole, as I don't need it any more. As someone who had to retire early through ill health and has to survive on a government pittance I would say that a model is an expensive luxury. I am a bit disappointed with your "I'm all right Jack" attitude and think you could have been a bit more sensitive with your posting.

[nhp651]

i have to agree with you, Richard, as another having had to take early retirement through a back injury at work, I know how you feel.
however, having been a developer of a model kit some years ago, I also can speak from that experience also, and i'm sorry but Davids agument doesn't wash either.
as Martin says, it takes a lot of money and time, plus charges from other sources for these traders to even set up credit card facilities, and for someone to come up with a statement that the "credit crunch" is just a statement to sell papers makes my blood boil .
 try telling that to all those loosing their homes because they can't afford to keep them, and ask them if the credit crunch is just a term to sell sodding papers
GET REAL, DAVID S ,You have absolutely no idea of the situation in the UK if those crasse' comments that you can come out with are the best that you can muster.
May be you're all right in Finland, but over here there are pensioners who are starving because they can't afford to eat???.
And you're  ANNOYED because you can't order on line and so have lost Model Slipway an order!!!
I sadly pity you for such an unfortunate predicament to be in!! :'( :'(

[longshanks]

Just think in the time its taken you to "xxxxx" off Model Slipway (a company with a fine reputation) you could have clicked a couple more buttons and ordered your kit from the likes of Westbourne Models (another fine outlet) for the same price.

Ah! The wonders of this century 

No I dont have any connection with either company - just a satisfied customer

longshanks

[Faraday's Cage]

David S,
If you're so eager to order your kit on line then why not use the Norwegian distributor listed on the Model Slipway site or is this not an option for you ?  I'll leave you to find the link, if you need it,  knowing that your a 21st Century type of guy.  

you could have clicked a couple more buttons and ordered your kit from the likes of Westbourne Models (another fine outlet) for the same price.

or picked up the phone and at least left a message for a call back at a time convenient to you.
FC

[Model_Slipway]

Hello,

We don't have a shop-on-line for several reasons:
- One of our relatives works in software engineering, networking and internet, and advised us to "try and do without".  Personally I don't trust computers in spite of all the wonderful security programs available.

- when customers input their card details in a shop-on-line they expect goods to be sent almost immediately. If there is a delay this may be regarded as "bad service" (as experienced by a few traders that I know).

- we would have to employ another staff to look after the shop-on-line the cost of which would have to be passed onto customers.

- Regarding Paypal, our Sellers Protection covers us for 150 pounds therefore we will not accept order value over 150 pounds. Once bitten ...

It is possible to place an order by email, however we advise to fax or phone the card details (for security reasons).

David_S :
If  "making a telephone call is even worse than posting or faxing an order" how about emailing me your phone number - I don't mind making a phone call!

Regards
Jackie









 

[FullLeatherJacket]

Couldn't agree more with Jackie ref costs, expectations, liability etc. The following from our own website:-

"We don’t have an On-Line purchasing facility. We thought long and hard about this but we concluded that many customers wish to confirm that they are buying the correct unit for the job they have in mind before they make a purchase. It’s easiest then to give us a call and, if the unit is suitable, the transaction can be completed over the phone. It’s also far more secure than posting your card details over the Internet, which still worries many people – us included".

Suit yourself, but that's the way we prefer to do business.

FLJ

[Martin13]

Hello,

We don't have a shop-on-line for several reasons:
- One of our relatives works in software engineering, networking and internet, and advised us to "try and do without".  Personally I don't trust computers in spite of all the wonderful security programs available.

David_S :
If  "making a telephone call is even worse than posting or faxing an order" how about emailing me your phone number - I don't mind making a phone call!

Regards
Jackie

After reading this post and all the ranting - Well done Model Slipway - that was the most POLITE and informative/helpful response ever

Martin doon under

[jules64]

I personally would like to second the comments made by DickyD and several others. This hobby has a come a long way in the last 20 years and the key is point here is that the quality "kits and products" are not always produced by big manufacturers. It is essential that you recognise a product and a manufacturer for their product. If you "appreciate" their product then the means to purchase it should be irrelevant!

People post regularly on this and other forums about being ripped of by ebay merchants and regularly bad mouth them. However in this situation a 5 minute phone call offers you more protection as a consumer by ordering over the phone than any other current method of payment. It also offers the manufacturers a similar level of protection. The added bonus to us as the consumer is that we may actually "talk" to a human to ascertain that the product we actually want to order is what we think it is.

Concerning the issue of being able to buy on a website directly I agree the convenience feature is great. However with all "major" purchase I will always phone for confirmation of stock and the delivery, when no number is provided I will not buy. This may also be applied to any cheap item if I need it quickly!

RonK, your comments are not justified as Westbourne Models and Cornwall models do not actually design any products! I understand that they are merely distributors of other peoples work. Anyone can setup such enterprises!

It is well known that Model Slipway have developed numerous boats/ships over the years and have an excellent reputation worlwide for quality kits at a good price. This reputation is only based on research, design and actuallly producing good kits. This on its own costs them a huge amount of money in order for them to remain in business. They are also not reselling other peoples products to remain in business. (Just try buying similar quality from Graupner or Robbe at the same price!) The mere "inconvenience" of having to phone an order in rather than order it on the net would not detract any serious modeller from buying any kit!

I am pleased that Maclaren are paying you so well that you only consider buying a model as an "expensive past time" rather than a "luxury". Perhaps if you worked for Ferrari you could afford to have someone else making your models and doing your posts? (Probably would have the same sensitivity with posts as you though!)

Good job we don't have to pay for F1 at the moment!

Jules64

[David_S]

Jackie from Model Slipway - thank you for the informative response. I much prefer to deal with companies by E Mail (or on-line shop) as I have become used to doing so, having made probably thousands of pounds worth of hobby purchases like this over the last 15 years. I will be in touch via e mail very soon.

Brief answer to the other helpful suggestions - I was aware of the Norwegian distributor, but Norway is a VERY expensive country to buy from, and is not in the EU, causing further complications. I usually buy from the UK or Germany. I have never had a problem, nor been ripped off by 'e bay merchants, nor do I know of anyone who has - it is always the 'friend of friend' who seems to have lost out.

I am afraid I have nothing to say those who consider a model boating forum to be a suitable outlet for their views on politics.

[David_S]

Incidentally, a quick pre-breakfast surf around a few pages suggests that Jotika, Mountfleet Models, Deans Marine, and Mobile Marine Models all have on-line shops, so perhaps the argument that only multinational giants of the model world can afford such things is slightly out of date, or are these manufacturers doing rather better than I had expected?

Question: How does one return to previous post to edit it? I feel a bit daft adding a reply to my own post but see no 'edit' or 'modify' button.

[Philipsparker]

Setting up an online shop is only part of the job. It costs money and that would have to go on the price of the kit but it IS doable for even small concerns.

The problem is expectation. We no longer expect to see "Goods will be dispatched within 28 days" on mail order forms. We expect it NOW because Amazon etc. work that way. Fine for a huge company, not good for a small cottage industry. Of course when the item doesn't arrive in 48 hours the modeller is straight on the web slagging off the company. The one man and his dog company who used to post orders twice a week and spend the rest of the time developing an manufacturing now has to employ and extra person just to deal with orders - whose wages go on the price of the kit.

The trouble is that consumers have it easy. This is forcing a pace of change - eBay has recently announced a buisness decision to move away from the main focus of the site being auctions towards "Buy it now" items. People simply won't wait.

[Colin Bishop]

Just a minor point but there is an underlying assumption here that everyone can just pick up a phone and sort things out. If you are severely deaf like I am that is often not a viable option. It can be tolerably OK if you are talking to somebody with very clear diction at a reasonable volume and the subject matter is familiar to the extent that you can fill in any gaps by guesswork. If it's an Indian call centre or one of those "If you want to XXX then press 1 etc." answering machines it can be a total nightmare. Validating a new credit card comes into that category so I get my wife to do it. For people like me, email is a Godsend which enables me to communicate without difficulty although I do sometimes find that certain people are uncomfortable with it themselves because they are not confident in their literacy and prefer to use the phone.

I recently needed to query my billing plan with my internet service provider who only give a phone number on their contact screen. I did however manage to track down an alternative email enquiry address and explained my problem and why I was using email to contact them rather than the phone. They gave me a telephone number to ring (via email!). On the other hand, when I needed to sort out a similar query with my mobile phone (which I can use to some extent) the people at O2 were very prompt and helpful in responding to my emails - all credit to them.

As far as ordering modelling stuff is concerned, I fully appreciate Jackie's points. It can be difficult to justify the cost of an online ordering system for comparatively small volume turnover. Better to order via one of the main distributors such as Westbourne. You'll get it just as quickly that way, the price is identical and you will be supporting the modelling retail trade at the same time.

As long as I can get the info I need via email, I'm happy to send a cheque or phone my card number through as it's not then going to be a complicated call.

Colin

[David_S]

Thanks, Colin, plenty of good sense in what you say. I will stick to the suggestion of dealing direct with MS by E mail. We haven't had a land-line telephone here for years (even my office has gone all-mobile), and I resent the cost of making international phone calls on my mobile. I am aware of Skype, but for some reason the sound quality is awful at the receiver's end.

Westbourne have the same prices as MS, but do not quote shipping prices outside the UK. It took time to decipher the message on their website as the English used is atrocious. Poor English on a British shop's website hardly inspires confidence in them, I'm afraid.

I daresay this makes me seem a grumpy old curmudgeon, but my money's as good as anyone's, and as we told that shops are chasing an increasingly small amount of disposable income, it seems a poor decision to alienate any potential customer.

DS

[nhp651]

I don't know, David S: you "xxxxx" off Model Slipway for not having on line shopping, and when you receive none too supportive comments from the majority of those who have replied to your forum post, you turn on Westbourne models for their telephone diction and grammer.
WHAT DO YOU WANT?
Perhaps you'd be better off either scratch building or buying from Billing, Graupner and Robbe, and leaving the poor old British manufacturers to lick their wounds and thank themselves lucky they don't have a whinging ex pat for a customer????
Gawd luv us all!!!

[Liverbudgie2]

Did I not hear in the last couple of days that Finland now has more mobile phones than land lines - just a bit a bit of triva of course.

LB

[David_S]

Excuse me? Could you point me to the post in which I have mentioned the telephone manner of Westbourne Models? I did say that using Skype was a poor choice for me because the person at the other end of the line always experiences bad sound quality, but how you managed to connect that with Westbourne Models is a mystery to me; I was referring to my experience with the program in general, and if I have to provide specific cases, I refer to calls made to members of my family in the UK. I do not, however, apologise for mentioning the spelling and grammar used on their website. I would be shocked if any of my first-year university students studying English as a second language came out with anything that bad.

As Model Slipway provided a gracious and polite reply to my original post, I doubt that they will thank you for suggesting that I take my money to another company instead. I am well aware of Model Slipway's reputation for quality; I had a model from them years ago when I still lived in the UK, and was on good terms with the proprietors whom I used to meet at various meetings around the south of England in the late 80s & early 90s.

My point was, and remains, that in a time of what we are told (and I have to put it that way as I am fortunate enough not to be experiencing the economic misfortunes of the UK first hand this time around) is economic hardship, with retailers chasing ever-decreasing numbers of cash customers, that anything that discourages a purchase is something the retailer should be made aware of.

DS