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[JayDee]

Hello,

At an RC Boat Show, should ALL of the RC boats entered into the Competition be able to sail on the water??.
After all, we are making "Model Boats", real boats sail on the water, so why not ours?.
IF there is water available to sail on and a person enters a "Radio controlled Boat" into a competition, it is not being unreasonable to expect to see it sailing for the Judges.
The Judges could then decide if the boat has a performance similar to the real boat and give it marks to suit.
This would be the end of the boats that win competitions , but never ever get wet!!.

Was at the side of one boat at a large event, a Life boat, when it started to drizzle rain, a large plastic cover was hurriedly placed over the boat to keep it dry!.
It was a well know winner of competitions, but it was a BOAT, and boats get wet,  - - - - or at least some of them do.
Also seen prize winning Submarines stashed inside Gazebos all day, to keep them dry !!.

A model boat competition for RC boats at the very least should be judged on the RC Controls, in or out of the water, preferably on the water, come rain or shine
- - - - - - -  " Lets see it sailing !!".
Otherwise, it is a STATIC MODEL which just happens to have RC fitted!, and should be judged in a different class.

John.   

[The long Build]

Totally Agree. 

[Colin Bishop]

I do have sympathy for people who don't like getting their boats wet as it can mess up a top quality model no end. However, if they choose not to sail in such conditions they should be regarded as having withdrawn from the competition. no problem then!

Colin

[JayDee]

Hello Colin,

We are talking about RADIO CONTROLLED BOATS, not some museum exhibit, but boats, that are radio controlled !!.
How can an item of any kind be said to be better than its neighbors if neither of them are operated ???.
Only holds true if the boats are classed as STATIC ones.

John.

[Stavros]

Cor Jaydee a man after my own heart and Colin I agree as well.I have attended quite a lot of shows in the last couple of years and I have come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time entering competitions due to the fact that unless you have a museum quality model that is NEVER sailed then you win.I must say that the majority of the models I have seen at the shows are what they say SHOW boats and I personally don't think they are sailed on a regular basis.I to would like to see all boats entered in a competition to be seen working and getting wet,this is my opinion



Stavros

[Colin Bishop]

I'm talking about radio controlled boats too. But some are quite delicate in the amount of detail they incorporate although fully operational. A downpour can make it very difficult to clean them up afterwards. As you may have noticed, rain these days isn't just water, it often contains a lot of crud which gets deposited on the models (it certainly does on my car!). Some people then refer to it as "weathering" but others prefer to keep their models clean! If conditions are too rough for my model I would withdraw it from the competition, surely the same applies to other weather conditions. Would you be happy to leave your boat with its fine detail out in a hailstorm which could bash it all to bits for example?

As I said, if the boat is withdrawn then it should no longer be considered as part of the competition. That's the trade off. The more robust models will then go on to win. So what's the problem?

Colin

[JayDee]

Hello,

At another large Event there was a Tannoy announcement that went as follows  "Will Mr XXXXXX please come to the Control Tent and collect his Transmitter".
This caused howls of laughter from the rest of the "Competitors", One was heard to shout   " Didn't know he had a Transmitter !!".
And the best part is, --   Mr XXXX is now a JUDGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Please note, no name mentioned !!.

John.

[Stavros]

I think the problem lies with museum pieces being entered in comps time and time again,dont you think a fairer system should be employed by the judging fraternety



Stavros

[Colin Bishop]

Good point Stavros. Yet another problematical question! Do you disqualify somebody from entering a competition they've won previously on the basis that it's somebody else's turn? Or do you take the line that it's up to somebody new to topple the present incumbent off the top spot?

If you take the former view then nobody would win the Wimbledon tennis or FA Cup/Premiership Title more than once would they? And the ones who did subsequently win could never be sure that they were actually the best.

So I suppose the question answers itself really....

Colin

[JayDee]

Hello,

IF, the judging of a "RADIO CONTROLLED BOAT" had anything at all to do with that boat having been seen to be RC out on some wet water, the results of competitions would change dramatically.
There are folk with boats "doing the rounds" of Comps who just do NOT sail their boats, I cannot mention names, but they are well known on the Show circuits.

I am NOT advocating sailing in Gales or hail storms, most of the Shows are held in the Summer, with every chance of being able to sail in safety.
If a RC boat is so tender and hard to clean, that it is never allowed to get wet, WHY IS IT Radio Controlled?????.
Colin likes to see "A Glass Case ", for gods sake, its a boat, it will not sail in a glass case !!.

How many times has ANYONE been asked to sail their boat, as part of a Competition  ???.
IF, anyone has, and has refused to sail, were they excluded from the competition? - - - - I think NOT !!!.

John. 

[Colin Bishop]

My boats have always sailed in all conditions Jaydee, and suffered as a result. If a competition requires that a boat be sailed then it should be sailed. If the owner then chooses not to sail it then it should be disqualified and will get no sailing points. This always used to be the case in MPBA competitions. Are you suggesting that boats are not sailed but still get points fot sailing? If so, that's a new one on me! Something for nothing. 

I must confess I've never seen a boat sailed in a glass case but I suppose that would be one way of keeping the rain off!

Colin

[Stavros]

Well I think the answer to this problem is simple only just thought of it.  Bring it to LLanberis then we will see how good it sails,if it can take the weather the lake throws up then it is a winner



Stavros

[JayDee]

Hello Colin,

This last year, you have been a Judge, at how many competitions ??.
Honest answer now, how many of those competitions was it a absolute requirement to sail ?.
How many competitions do you know of, or have heard of, where sailing is a requirement?, please answer these questions,
because, you, as a Judge, must know the answers.
The only competitions I have ever head of where sailing was part of it, is a Steering Comp, or Yacht Racing and Power Boats.

John.      

[Colin Bishop]

John,

You do have me there as most of the events I have attended over the last couple of years have been free sailing ones where the competition has either been just a bit of fun or non existent. However I understand the the MPBA events, mostly now held in the North, still require sailing to get the points. At the major shows such as the MEE, if there is a competition it has usually been "on the table" only.

I am not quite sure what you are getting at however. Are you saying that events which just judge "on the table" should have a sailing element added? If not then they are simply "Static Competitions. Or are you saying that sailing is expected but entrants can refuse to do so and still compete against boats that do which I agree would be rather unfair. It all depends on the rules of the particular event. Can you give some examples where you think that sailing should have been compulsory but wasn't?

Colin

[JayDee]

Hello,

 There seems to be a fundermental difference of opinions here, it is obvious that I am a Sailor first and fore most, while others are not.
No amount of discussion will change peoples closely held views.
So I am dropping out of this one.

John.   

[nhp651]

But you actually started this topic, John, so how can you now "drop out" of it as you say.

[Colin Bishop]

John,

I was under the impression that there are still a number of steering only events on the calendar which should suit people like yourself. Surely it's the variety of events around the country which offer something for everyone, whatever your particular interests? It does seem to me that these days most people are more into free sailing events with no competitive element though. Nothing wrong with that if it's what floats your boat.

Colin

[Ghost in the shell]

As far as competitions are concerned, there should be things that judges should take into account when assessing a model classified as "working" boat, and I dont mean just seeing radio and a motor buried away in the afore mentioned hull that happens to be SPOTLESS!  ok a boat should be well presented, but a wet-boat will never be in the same condition as a dry-keep boat because of lake water containing things like silt and micro organisms that can eventually dull a model.   Also over time, UV will fade paint of a model, and so despite a model being built to the HIGHEST STANDARD, after 10 years of sailing for example, it won't look as good as it did the day she was launched, and polishing a model aint easy, especially if it is a warship.

Hell when I enter a competition, the model has usually been sailing the morning before the entry, but judging models on the water does have more to do with the operator than the model.

cost of a trophy: £30
cost of a room for the night £40
cost of having fun on the water: priceless

at the end of the day, its all done for personal enjoyment.  ok I like to put my models on display, and yes they may not be the best painted or best built on mayhem, but at the end of the day, for me at least it isn't about being the best of class, its about getting the most enjoyment whilst sailing or displaying

[Ron1]

My HMS Bryony went to the MEE I did not get even a commended, thats a piece of paper, the judges said , she was to like the ship.


Yet a few months later the same two judges could not beleave how she sailed at the Southport RNLI Regatta, on the saturday it was so bad very few sailed, if there built tosail get them in the water.

[Colin Bishop]

My HMS Bryony went to the MEE I did not get even a commended, thats a piece of paper, the judges said , she was to like the ship.

Not quite sure what you mean there Ron. But the MEE has no sailing facilities so she could not have been judged on the water there. Southport was a different sort of event altogether and the judging rules would have been different if the model was scrutinised while afloat.

Colin

[Ghost in the shell]

ron, that is still a good ship. :)

[Ron1]

They are all lumped together, static, a scratch built r/c model is judged with glass case jobs.

[Sub driver]

Well,
this is a most subjective topic, a model that sails and is a competition model,,,,,,,,, unfortunately you cannot have both, a model that is up to competiton standard is a very different model than one that is sailed on regular intervals, the amount of work and detail that a modeller puts in to a competition model is far more than a sailing model.
Just to get everthing scale will stop a model from sailing as the detail is so fine that it will not stand up to the rigours of sailing, just due to the scale of things.
I enter competitions and then after a few yrs I use the models as they are intended, they are all radio controlled from the beginning but exhibited first, as even a minor scratch is marked down in a competition, yet doesn't matter for sailing and so on and so forth.

Its like a concours catagory in classic cars, you are exhibiting a model as perfect as you the modeller can get it , paint, scale, detail, build quality etc.
Thats what keeps the standard high...something to aim at and aspire to.
It is a different world competition modelling to a regular sailing model, it has to be or the standard will drop and so will the models on view.
I stand there in awe sometimes at the workmanship of some modellers I see, but it just inspires me to try harder next time, not to get the standard lowered, but to try and get me better at what I do.

A competition model can take several yrs to complete, just ask how long was your last build ????????? its all about quality of workmanship and expertise and skill.

Just my Humble opinion.

Regards to all.

BAH HUMBUG !

Sub.






Just my humble opinion.    

[Colin Bishop]

They are all lumped together, static, a scratch built r/c model is judged with glass case jobs.

Sorry Ron, as far as the ME Exhibition is concerned that is not correct.

Marine classes:

Class C1. Working Scale Models scale 1:1 to 1:48
Class C2 Working Scale Models scale 1:49 to 1:384
Class C3 Non Working Scale Models scale 1:1 to 1:48
Class C4 Non Working Scale Models scale 1:49 to 1:384
Class C5 Sailing Ships - working
Class C6 Sailing Ships non working
Class C7 Non Scale Functional models (inc Hydroplanes)
Class C8 Miniatures
Class C9 Any model built drom a commercial kit.

Any questions?

Colin

[cos918]

There is another point to this. Take Warwick show. There were boats there i would have loved to see on the water but they never sail . The show in doors, heated, the pool has clean tap water I mean what more do you want. I think it proves the point there are boats that never sail. I ask why build them . I mean a boat is built to sail the high seas were the weather can be hell. It's what there made to do. I mean Cunard did not build QE2 and have her sit on John brows slips for 40+ years she was made to get wet and so should a model boat. If pool water( thats clean drinking water ) damages a boat, well how well was it made. i mean come on lets get real. How much beater would it have been to see all the boats that could sail Warwick 2008 had sailed I think the show would have been a lot better. That just my 2 pence worth.

john