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[Sub driver]

I know where your comming from,

Its all about perfection and the real world thats all.

Sub.

[Bunkerbarge]

I think we need to realise that in our hobby we have at one end of the scale people who put together a springer in a few days to play football with and at the other end people who spend years and possibly thousands of pounds producing a model as near to perfection as they can achieve.  Most of us are somewhere in the middle but we all do what we do for different reasons.

How do you go about judging such a huge range of standards fairly?  I think it's impossible to come up with a perfect system and whatever we have is dependant on the judges levels of commitment and dedication but, lets be really honest now, are the complaints about the system or are they from people who think they should have won something and didn't and the easy way is to blame the judges and the system rather than admit the fact that the model simply wasn't as good as the winner?

I have different models for different purposes.  The steamer has been under construction for five years now and there are a couple more to go yet as it is going to be as near to the best I can make it.  I also have models that are on the water every week and they get knocked around on the water and in the car but that's OK.  The steamer will be sailed but not as regularly because I don't want it to get knocked around and I don't want someone with a 50 quid chineese sail boat with dodgy reception to go into the side of it.  And just to put it all into context, I'll never enter it for a competition either because I built it for myself not to be compared with others as to which is best.

[tigertiger]

There are many different types of competition.

Judging at a a table is often more convenient for judges. Often there is not access to water.
I have been to shows where there is access to water but it is not used in the judging.

Perhaps there is something here for the organisers to consider as well. If there is water, then use it in the competition.


But every show is different. A bit like every race course is different (horses).
Every set of criteria may vary. And everytime one particular group can be favoured at the expense of another. And there is always roll to gripe.

I love my boat, I know it will never win any competitions.

I have seen some boats at shows that I am in awe of.
I have seen others that give me a sense of pride in my own building abilities, limited though they are.

[Martin (Admin)]

Topic renamed

[FullLeatherJacket]

Have I missed something here, chaps? A "show" is a show, while a "competition" is altogether something else. One you enter just for the hell of it i.e. to show your model to anyone who wants to look at it, while the other one is done expressly to win a prize for some quality it has e.g. the best-built; nearest-to-scale; best on a steering course; fastest; prettiest colour scheme, etc etc.

If I wanted to enter the MEE for a Gold Medal (or whatever pot they give out) then I wouldn't expect to have to demonstrate that a model entered for its scale accuracy is actually any good on the water. To put it another way, if a beautifully-built scale model also happens to have a motor and a radio inside it then that's a bonus but, unless the thing has been entered in a class which requires it to be sailed, it's not relevant. That's a bit like entering for a tango competition and having to show the judges that you can run a sub-10 second 100m as well.

The rules to all of these shindigs are pretty well publicised beforehand, so there should be no need to stamp your feet and scream-until-you're-sick if you don't like them. Like I always say, it's a broad church; suit yourself.

FLJ

[nhp651]

I'm sorry,subdriver, but you are absolutely catagorrically and totally WRONG about  your statement that the effort put into a show case competition model as opposed to a sailing model is much greater.
I put in just as much effort into a sailing model as I do a showcasecomp model.
It is the only way I do model, and live up to my grandfther's statement "that if a job is worth doing its worth doing well and if you do your best every time, only a fool can critisize"

[Ron1]

I agree with the above.

As to weather, get your boats wet.

[boat captain]

I'm sorry,subdriver, but you are absolutely catagorrically and totally WRONG about  your statement that the effort put into a show case competition model as opposed to a sailing model is much greater.
I put in just as much effort into a sailing model as I do a showcasecomp model.
It is the only way I do model, and live up to my grandfther's statement "that if a job is worth doing its worth doing well and if you do your best every time, only a fool can critisize"

I totally agree with what you say, I have two boats a Girl Class Tug (Alice) and a Clyde Puffer (Sealight) both scratch built no commercial fittings used and both are sailed  on a regular basis.  At the Ellesmere Port Boat Museum Model Boat Convention my tug won a Mobile Marine BEWT award, Convention BEWT award and Committee award and that was after she had been sailing on the canal.  Sealight at Birchwood won Scratch Built and Best on Stand also after sailing.  She has also won at Southport Best Workboat two years running and Second place Highly Commended in Scratch built Class 3 years running and also sailed there.

So as you say you can build top class models sail them and still win competitions.

Joe

[Sub driver]

NHP651.

I was speaking in a broad term, you are in a minority there me thinks, the difference is "what will do" and what is as perfect as posible that you can make it, the time difference is vast between the two.

As FLJ says we are talking about competition models, when you come up against some of the best marine modelers in europe they have to be as damn near perfect as possible, again I agree with FLJ you should know the rules prior to entering a competition and be prepared to get beat by a better model, you don,t play cards without knowing the rules do you.

Also there is no way i will put one of my comp models on our lake with the amount of people suffering from what appears to be eyesight problems down there, just as bunker says.

I also by the way have several successful competition models , but thats another story.

Regards sub.

[nhp651]

No, subway. I think YOU  are in the minority.
I have never heard a modeller yet say that they have just "thrown one together" to sail.
There is not a modeller in the land ( me thinks) that isn't proud of his/her model  when he either takes it to the pond or to a show, and if you build different models to show and to sail then you are a strange breed.
Why bother building if you are not going to build to your best, every time.
That's the only way you improve!
I m not saying that there are different kinds of modellers.
I accept that there are those who just build to show and there are those who just build to sail, but I hae difficulty in believing that someone builds scrappily just because he knows his boat is going to get a knock or scratch. That to me is an alien concept.Sorry.

[Ron1]

I think we have a lot of " fair weather sailors here", 

[Colin Bishop]

I think we have a lot of " fair weather sailors here", 

Sez Who?

[Ron1]

Sez Who? sez me.

[cos918]

Hi all . Colin there some nice photos did any damage happen to the 2 tug the one that sank and the one that lost its top.

john

[Colin Bishop]

No, they all dried out OK. No boats were harmed in the making of this sequence! Pictures were taken at the 2007 MPBA Scale Championships at Wicksteed. The downwind end of the lake got very choppy!

Colin

[nhp651]

Some rather dramatic shots there Colin.
Very much what I sail on regularly at Fleetwood.
However, knowing what the conditions are like, the majority of the time on that lake, I build to  combat that sort of weather.
I do feel sorry though for those who are "expected to sail" in order to compete.
We are, sadly, a very competative world, and it is indicative of our society that unless we are at the top, or at least are seen to be trying for the top spot, be it in work or play, we get classed as loosers.
I spent all my life as a class room teacher,( of woodwork and tech drawing) because that is what I WANTED to be, and unfortunately was bullied by a head teacher into becoming part of management and becoming head of department. I hated it and it lead to me having a nervous breakdown and leaving a profession and job that I had loved for 20 years.
I think that is why I seldom do compete these days, and then am not put into a situation where I HAVE TO in order to satisfy others.
But there are people who think that they have to in order to keep in the "race".

[Colin Bishop]

Entry to the competition was entirely voluntary Neil. It wasn't the fault of the organisers that a strong wind came out of nowhere the way it did. Most of us in the pictures were caught out because we didn't realise just how bad it was getting. Boats that had sailed half an hour earlier had no problems. The Waterman and the passenger vessel Devonia coped brilliantly with the conditions. Devonia went on to win the Exact Scale Class demonstrating that high quality models can indeed take it!

Colin

[nhp651]

He deserved to ,Colin.
Mind you although nerve racking it can be fun, unless it's salt water,,,,,,,,,then it's b*****y fatal for the electrics!

[Ron1]

That woke a few up, I find most pot hunters are frigtend to get there models wet, if you built it you can repair it is my moto.

Some years ago a bloke at Southport brought a SMIT ROTTERDAM in a ply case, the first spot of rain, it was back in the box.

[Bowwave]

This is what I call exceptional sailing conditions . Phil Scales better known to many at producing   truly fine and authentically weathered models sailed this Flower class corvette on lake Windermere just to prove a point. Even  though this model has won many awards it is  sailed to the limit.

Bowwave

[Peter Fitness]

unless it's salt water,,,,,,,,,then it's b*****y fatal for the electrics!

Not necessarily, Neil. Recently, one of our lady members had her tug rammed (accidentally) and sunk in over 2 metres of salt water. She immediately waded in, fully clothed (unfortunately), performed a beautiful duck dive (9 out of 10) and retrieved the stricken model from the bottom of the lake. We "gentlemen"    gallantly took the boat from her at the lake edge, (we didn't want to get wet)  and immediately washed all the electrics thoroughly in fresh running water, then allowed them to dry in the hot sun for about 2 hours. The last I heard, everything was working perfectly, although the hull needed some repairs.

I might also add that the said lady received 9 out of 10 in the "Wet T Shirt" competition 

Peter.

[nhp651]

sadly, peter. that's where your plan unravells, my friend.
we don't get HOT sun in this country anymore.
we don't even get sun.
even the rain's b""""""""y cloudy.lol
mind you, shortest day tomorrow........so I'll be able to come out of hybernation shortly.

[Ghost in the shell]

well I have sailed in icey water :)

[Ron1]

Here,s one for you ghost. my Cervia at Runcorn,

[Ghost in the shell]

he he he, couldn't do that with nord icelandia, her thin ply hull isn't as tough as abs i dont think