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[UltraMagnus]

hi,
well, i am just getting started in model boats, although i have had a few years of experience (about 5) in static modelling, wargame modelling, and electronics.  i thought i would start with a scale model, mainly because i am used to them in static modelling.  my main intrest is to eventually scratch build boats and submarines, however first i would like to get something up and running so i can familiarize myself with how the RC eqipment work, and how to build electronics around it. (ie, rotating turrets, sound effects, torpedos, "smoke" guns, you get the picture)

anyway, firstly, i wanted to know exactly how the definition between a "toy" and a "model"?

i am putting together a proverbial shopping list, for the kit i am currenty trying to decide between an S130 torpedo boat (here http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=2498 ) and a PT15 torpedo boat ( here http://www.rchobby.co.uk/fittings_set_pt_1.htm ) would either of these be suitable for a beginner? which one would be more suitable?

for a radio i was considering the Robbe F14 expandable radio, mainly because i doubt i will "grow" out of it, with it being expandable and all, it also seems good value for money,  or is this a bad choice?

would i require anything else to get the boat running?

well, sorry for all the questions.  thanks in advance!  :)

[flag-d]

Hi UltraMagnus

Questions are there to be answered, so here goes with wha I know...

Toys are from toy shops, models are from model shops!  (Actually, if many modellers were to tell the truth, their models are in fact toys: big, expensive, beautifully made, but toys all the same - I could get shot for saying such a thing!)

The S130 Schnellboot has various problems with fit, especially deck and torp tubes.  I have no personal experience, but have read what many other owners have.  Have no info on the PT boat, so can't healp you there.  Can't remember if it is Robbe or Graupner, but the Wiesel (Think that's how you spell it) is a more modern naval patrol boat: turret, radar etc: lots to mechanise.  I have the Robbe F14 (it is actually a Futaba unit).  Yes, very expandable, not too expensove, but it does have a look and feel as if it was made by some bloke in his garage.  Mind you, it works fine, just doen't feel very 'solid'.

RC's not nearly as tricky as it might seem.  Welcome to the hobby and have fun!

Mike

[Doc]

UltraMagnus,
A 'toy' boat is one that is typically sold commercially as a 'RTR' (Ready To Run) thingy which you have absolutely no control over how it's built, or of what.  It's usually supplied with a very minimal radio system which is usually a very proprietary kind of thing (not much you can do with it except use with that particular model), and probably no choice in radio channels.  If there's already one in use, you can't use yours.
A 'model' is usually just a kit that you put together.  They range from extremely simple to things you don't even want to think about - lol.  Usually are of wood, plastic, fibreglass, or some combination of all of those.  Some are even partially built, you just finish them, sort of.  Same range as you find with 'static' models, 'idiot' level to 'museum' stuff, right?
If you can build a static model you can probably build an R/C model.  The biggest difference is mainly in stuffing the electronic stuff inside.  After seeing a few typical R/C model set ups the idea sort of sinks in and then you just adapt to the particular model you are doing.  There's really no mystery to the radio part of the whole thing.  It can be a little confusing to start with but that's true of any new 'thing'.  Same for the propulsion part (gas-petrol/nitro/electric).  (I understand electrical stuff, combustion engines are a complete mystery to me.  I like electric boats, naturally.)  Just a matter of becoming familiar with what you want to use ('just', he says!).
As for the particular models you asked about, I haven't built any of them so you'd be wasting your time listening to me about them.  I seriously doubt if any of them would be beyond your capability.  Just depends on how 'adaptible' you are, or how well you can work around the problems, sort of.
If you didn't learn to 'cuss' with static models, you have a whole new learning experience ahead of you!  Enjoy.
 - 'Doc

(Which do you like the most?  Get it.)

[ambernblu]

.... Hi. As Flag D mentioned, the Robbe Schnellboot has had problems with some parts fittings - there is a full detailed build of this boat (from opening the box to sea trials!) on the main Mayhem site. As for the PT15 I'm sure there are references to this model's build on this Forum - just search PT15. From the point of view of a beginner to radio control, this kit certainly looks a better option than the Schnellboot, but judging from your modelling expertise, you may wish to modify your choice of builds at a later stage once you have the first model up and running!

I'm not sure what Robbe supply with their individual kits, but I do know that some fittings packs come separate, so its worth checking that out. Its the same with a drive installation - check out what is included (you normally get propshafts, rudder, props etc) but its not usual to get motors - these are a subject for discussion in their own right, as performance of a model on the water is a matter for conjecture - and personal taste!! For the same reason you may also wish to modify the choice of props at some point in the future too!

You will also need some form of speed control for your model (one or two electronic speed controllers to suit the power format chosen) and of course batteries and radio control. Planning for all these extra bits and pieces in your model is all part of the fun - there are normally no instructions, although checking out the model press - also back issues (Model Boats and Marine Modelling mags) may offer a review of the chosen kit where certain advice/suggestions may be helpful to the first-timer....

Having said that, there is a wealth of experience and info via the members of this forum, many of whom have built more RC model boats than I've had hot dinners (and thats saying something!) 

regards, Brian

[g7tmu]

Hi

I am just completing a Robbe PT15 and I would think that it was suitable for a beginner, although the instruction booklet could be a bit clearer. Fortunately there is a decent plan which makes most things clear.

I had a couple of queries on it when I started and got some guidance from this Forum. I had heard that the Robbe motor/gearbox unit which Robbe recommends is noisy and other Forum users confirmed that. I have fitted mine with a standard 550 motor with integral fan (similar to that in a Club 500 model) and a standard prop shaft (no gearbox). The prop shaft came from Deans and I intend to use 8.4v NIMH battery packs.

The fittings kit is separate, but you can build the model up to test sailing stage without it, which is where I am at with mine. I hope to test sail it in the next couple of weeks. If all goes well I shall then get the fittings kit and complete it. Mine will have working foghorn and lights, the lights being part of the fittings kit. Standard 4 channel Hitec 40mhz radio gear will be adequate for mine. The latching type switching for the lights and the non-latching type switching for the foghorn can either be purchased ready made or as a kit from suppliers like Action (see www.actionkit.co.uk or make your own (see www.modelfireboats.co.nr). You can make the 2 guns rotate and some parts are supplied for this, but I didn't bother as you would need to be very close to see them work!

There are some photos of my PT15 on this Forum.

Hope this helps

Victor (G7TMU)

[martno1fan]

hi plss dont use rc hobby they are crap !! they over charge and the service is diabolical !!.my sone got one of those plastic rtr aircraft carriers off ebay for 35 pounds and rc hobby have them for well over £100 pounds  £125 i think.apart from the prices they dont reply to emails about missing parts or damaged goods.they took 2 months to replace a broken part on a plane we bought from them.it took a month just to get a reply!!.i will never again use that company ,just thought id share my experience with you.if i were you id shop arround there are many good model shops out there,this is not one of them beleive me.by the way that pt boat at rc hobby goes for between 15 and 30 pounds on ebay brand new!!its just a toy though but  they work good!
my son got  one from a uk outlet on ebay but they dont have anything at the min  .postage is not bad and all in the price is well under rc hobbys price of £130 which is rediculous!!.i hope this helps out and saves you some money.ebay is a great place to get things at good prices  just stick to the ebay shops and you have full back up and you can send it back if not satisfied!!.by he way my sons boat sails pretty well to say it has no rudder.heres one i found same as youres also check out theyre ebay shop and see the carrier.!!carrier is £29.99 pluss£ 24 shipping thats less than 50 quid delivered compared to £130 for the boat from rc hobby
by the way the 1st one you linked at sussex model centre is a good one thats a propper kit not a ready built toy,if you want to build get that one the power set up is a good one too not a mini motor(toy) 3 good size motors will give good performance.well worth the money unlike the cheap toy rc hobby are trying to pass off as a model kit!!

http://http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TORNADO-DESTROYER-RC-BOAT-RC-SHIP-R-C-WAR-SHIP-NIB_W0QQitemZ290005544514QQihZ019QQcategoryZ140971QQcmdZViewItem

[Doc]

UltraMagnus,
Don't keep us in suspense, what did you decide?
 - 'Doc

[cbr900]

And hopefully not one of the crappy rtr boats from ebay, as Bob said you don't do any building just open the box and hope it works, they are only kids toys, buy a kit and build it yourself and you will be a lot more satisfied as it will be yours..



Roy

[martno1fan]

spot on there Roy but dont buy one from rchobby they are rip off merchants as i think i proved!!£130 for a kids toy!!sometimes ebay is a good place lol especially for kids toys!!!.