Topic: Hemmens Canton v4 what's it worth? (Read 13178 times)

oiler · « **on:** January 01, 2009, 10:49:53 pm »

Thinking of selling my Canton v4 just the engine not the boiler and was wondering what it would be worth. It runs very well and has a built in water pump as well.
Reason for selling it is I decided to use a twin instead in my boat and could use the extra money for my other hobbies.

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2009, 03:15:02 am »

I bought an unused Caton plant about a year ago for 750.00 pounds so I would put the engine on it's own at about 300.00, maybe 350.00 pounds, depending on the market. Mine also had a pump and a separator tank included in the set up.

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2009, 03:57:40 pm »

I think Bunkerbarge has got it spot on

oiler · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2009, 10:57:15 pm »

heck for that I'll just keep it

after looking at the prices of some of the ebay autions for Stuarts I figured it would be worth more.

Proteus · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2009, 02:19:30 am »

Over the last few years there have been one or two on e-bay I think Bernard got one, and they have all been about bunkerbarges price one sold for less, you may be lucky as there have not been one for some time. if its the Cheddar/Stuart plants I think it is because they may be better known and are easy to repair/service if its Stuart engines then they a bigger engine in the main and I think most are overpriced as a lot are home machined and I have seen some well painted bags of JUNK on my travels, but most people seem to want the Stuarts for ornaments only and they are OK for that( you may be able to tell I don't think much of Stuart engines)

Proteus

john hemmens · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2009, 02:38:44 pm »

What a load of cods, The "CATON" is well made and in the twentyfours years since this engine was made I have had only one or two to repair where as the others!

The price depends on the appearance, whether it has been loved more or less with what ever you have to sell. The "Caton" V4 normally sells by word of mouth in the range of 350 to 1500 Pounds. If you have some spare cash in the current climate, it will be a sound investment.

john hemmens

wideawake · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2009, 02:54:50 pm »

Quote from: john hemmens on January 13, 2009, 02:38:44 pm

What a load of cods, The "CATON" is well made and in the twentyfours years since this engine was made I have had only one or two to repair where as the others!

The price depends on the appearance, whether it has been loved more or less with what ever you have to sell. The "Caton" V4 normally sells by word of mouth in the range of 350 to 1500 Pounds. If you have some spare cash in the current climate, it will be a sound investment.

john hemmens

Ah but the "CANTON" must be the Chinese copy

Guy

Proteus · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2009, 02:58:02 pm »

Quote from: john hemmens on January 13, 2009, 02:38:44 pm

What a load of cods, The "CATON" is well made and in the twentyfours years since this engine was made I have had only one or two to repair where as the others!

ER who said they where not well made ?? where as you stoop to say the other's are not..I think this member need to read Martins post.

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11159.msg143374;topicseen#msg143374

Proteus

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:56:38 pm »

I think what John is saying, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the quality justifies a higher price than has been mentioned. No-one of course has questioned the quality but, as always, something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. eBay prices seem to indicate 300.00 to 350.00 for the engine on it's own would be about what people are willing to pay at the moment however that does not mean to say that there is not someone out there who will pay more.

How you go about finding them is a whole different story.

logoman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2009, 11:15:43 pm »

Has anyone here owned both a Caton V4 and the Saito V4? I'd like to know how they compare.
I'm guessing they are roughly the same cylinder size, I don't have the tech specs for either.

edit: the Saito V4 has a 2.53 cc displacement.

oiler · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2009, 06:10:05 am »

Quote from: wideawake on January 13, 2009, 02:54:50 pm

Quote from: john hemmens on January 13, 2009, 02:38:44 pm
What a load of cods, The "CATON" is well made and in the twentyfours years since this engine was made I have had only one or two to repair where as the others!

The price depends on the appearance, whether it has been loved more or less with what ever you have to sell. The "Caton" V4 normally sells by word of mouth in the range of 350 to 1500 Pounds. If you have some spare cash in the current climate, it will be a sound investment.

john hemmens

Ah but the "CANTON" must be the Chinese copy

Guy

Yeah I caught that the day after I posted and couldn't go back to fix it

I thought about selling it because I felt my job might be jeopardized from the recent economy problems here in the states. However after speaking to the boss he not only assured me that my position was safe but gave me a raise as well so I'll be keeping the engine for sure. I'm just a little shocked that such a hard to find engine wouldn't be worth more considering what some of the 2 cylinder engines are going for. This engine runs smooth and has plenty of power and is really a unique engine considering what is out there. I know if I see one for $350 pounds I'll be buying it!

logoman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 15, 2009, 07:58:44 am »

If you were going to sell it for 350, I'd have jumped at the opportunity. Glad to hear that you have some job security.

nhp651 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 15, 2009, 10:00:29 am »

I'm sory to dull such a aspirations of your products and comment Mr Hemmens, but NO, repeat NO steam engine is a good investment these days.
When you take into account the amount of hours taken to build,(even the "mass produced") then not one of them will ever sell for any more that their outlay in time and/or money once they have been initially purchaced, even yours!!!
I'm sorry to say but if you want an investment these days, there is precious little going, even bricks and mortar don't seem to be doing too well, so sorry to burst your bubble, but they are worth what someone will pay for them.

logoman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 15, 2009, 03:32:32 pm »

Quote from: nhp651 on January 15, 2009, 10:00:29 am

I'm sory to dull such a aspirations of your products and comment Mr Hemmens, but NO, repeat NO steam engine is a good investment these days.
When you take into account the amount of hours taken to build,(even the "mass produced") then not one of them will ever sell for any more that their outlay in time and/or money once they have been initially purchaced, even yours!!!
I'm sorry to say but if you want an investment these days, there is precious little going, even bricks and mortar don't seem to be doing too well, so sorry to burst your bubble, but they are worth what someone will pay for them.

there have never been so many investment opportunities! Stocks are cheap, some antiques have hit rock bottom, early german engines have been a good investment, and that looks to continue. Must try harder.

nhp651 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2009, 07:49:36 pm »

we aren't talking stock and antiques, we're talking used steam engines......most holding their price these days like a 4 x 4.

no real comparison to a Bing or a piece of Clarice Cliff, which are in fact on the rise, and not "rock bottom" as you say.......they are the only things holding their price.
You try buying a hemmens or a stuart engine and resell for more than you bought it for.........you'll find out what I mean.

don galfur · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2009, 10:10:03 pm »

Interesting chat re. the Hemmens V4. I bought one on ebay complete plant -never run. Paid 1750 American and I can assure you it was a rare deal. That was in 2006 BTW. I have just finished an open launch that fully exposes the delightful operation of this engine. Now mine is not the Caton but is referred to as Max4 and was built in 1997 or 1998 as I recall. It has simple oil cups to the crossheads and an in line displacement lubricator. A few of John's V's had miniature oil pumps I believe. I agree that these are worth what one is willing to pay, but many would pay beaucoup once they saw mine. Now I also do have a Saito v 4 in a MHB Opal which I put in instead of the Cheddar Pintail. These engines are very different. The Saito is a single acting engine and the Max is double acting. The Saito is a fine little engine but has a real thirst for oil and cannot be set in a way to stop a flow of steam; in other words , it leaks but not in a defective way, it is just the valving of the thing. I will say it is a real screamer in the Opal but the runs are no more than 20 minutes due to the need to keep the flame high because of the above mentioned issue of leakage when idle. The Max is a jewel in the possible slowness of its operation. I think it is the most interesting model engine to observe in its quiet turnover. Passersby at the pond in San Francisco are always charmed, as am I !! NOT FOR SALE however.
Don Galfur

logoman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2009, 11:38:36 pm »

Quote from: nhp651 on January 15, 2009, 07:49:36 pm

we aren't talking stock and antiques, we're talking used steam engines......most holding their price these days like a 4 x 4.
no real comparison to a Bing or a piece of Clarice Cliff, which are in fact on the rise, and not "rock bottom" as you say.......they are the only things holding their price.
You try buying a hemmens or a stuart engine and resell for more than you bought it for.........you'll find out what I mean.

oiler · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2009, 07:07:47 am »

Quote from: don galfur on January 15, 2009, 10:10:03 pm

Interesting chat re. the Hemmens V4. I bought one on ebay complete plant -never run. Paid 1750 American and I can assure you it was a rare deal. That was in 2006 BTW. I have just finished an open launch that fully exposes the delightful operation of this engine. Now mine is not the Caton but is referred to as Max4 and was built in 1997 or 1998 as I recall. It has simple oil cups to the crossheads and an in line displacement lubricator. A few of John's V's had miniature oil pumps I believe. I agree that these are worth what one is willing to pay, but many would pay beaucoup once they saw mine. Now I also do have a Saito v 4 in a MHB Opal which I put in instead of the Cheddar Pintail. These engines are very different. The Saito is a single acting engine and the Max is double acting. The Saito is a fine little engine but has a real thirst for oil and cannot be set in a way to stop a flow of steam; in other words , it leaks but not in a defective way, it is just the valving of the thing. I will say it is a real screamer in the Opal but the runs are no more than 20 minutes due to the need to keep the flame high because of the above mentioned issue of leakage when idle. The Max is a jewel in the possible slowness of its operation. I think it is the most interesting model engine to observe in its quiet turnover. Passersby at the pond in San Francisco are always charmed, as am I !! NOT FOR SALE however.
Don Galfur

Yeah the Max4 is a very nice engine. One day I hope to own one myself. If I ever find one...

don galfur · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:30:11 pm »

A couple of you expressed interest in seeing a few pictures of the launch with the Hemmens plant. Here you are.
Don Galfur

don galfur · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:32:37 pm »

And a couple more.
Don

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2009, 05:03:06 pm »

Absolutely lovely Don. I need to get my own "V" Four into a similar hull, it does the job superbly and really looks the part in operation. The thing that has always impressed me with my own is the fact that it can go so incredibly slowly as well as smoothly!

Bernhard · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2009, 06:02:16 pm »

Hi,,,reael nice it is,,,,....++++++....the first photo look like a real boat,,how long running time do you have ,,,and how offen do you have to emty the Water/oilTank

Regards Bernhard

don galfur · « **Reply #22 on:** January 19, 2009, 06:20:20 pm »

Both the reserve feedwater (800 ml.) and the sludge are contained below deck in two fiberglass tanks built into the hull. The vertical cylinder near the stack is a primary separator which feeds the tank below. Sludge is removed with a rubber bulb every run through a wooden hatch. Runs times can be as much as 50 minutes or so, maybe more, but in truth this boiler is just up to the task with nothing to spare. Consequently I keep things pretty heated up and water lasts just about that long. There are two fuel tanks aboard, a primary tank heated at first with a gate valve that allows a passage of steam from the sludge tank that is then shut off once the fuel is heated. This really speeds up the initial heat up of fuel. A larger tank in the factory container is in the bow compartment and feeds the black tank in the picture in the form of liquid metered through an in line jet ( #8 ). By offsetting the point of expansion and putting it to the black tank to expand mostly there, the extreme chilling of the gas is fairly reduced making the distant location possible. I will say I am still playing with the whole arrangement and things work out better with each run. Still a new model completed last Oct.!!
Dan

ROSYTH · « **Reply #23 on:** April 22, 2009, 04:06:34 pm »

Hi if anyone has one of these engine's surplus to requirements well I am happy to offer 500 quid for it as long as it is in working order and been looked after ok.

Cheers

YesteryearToys · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:26:14 pm »

A beautiful engine ... think it would a huge bargain at GPB 500. Rarely come up on the used market!

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Author Topic: Hemmens Canton v4 what's it worth? (Read 13178 times)

Proteus

john hemmens

wideawake

Proteus

logoman

logoman

nhp651

logoman

nhp651

don galfur

logoman

don galfur

don galfur

Bernhard

don galfur

YesteryearToys