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Author Topic: No Democracy In the MPBA  (Read 15499 times)

maninthestreet

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2009, 05:13:57 pm »

Ernie,

Would it be possible to set up a rival MPB organisatiion - call it something the the 'The  Real Model Power Boat Association' ??
Remember, don't get mad, get even!


 
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The long Build

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2009, 05:16:25 pm »

Colin
I fully agree with you there but it must be an affiliated thing , My wife is a member of her local outdoor swimming club which is affiliated to both the ASA and BLDSA (swimming organisations) the club runs their events under either of the 2 depending on the type of event BUT to enter specific events organised by the other 2 organisations they have to also join that as well !! I personally would have said to be a member of an affiliated club is fine , however it appears not..

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gingyer

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2009, 05:27:02 pm »

Colin
I fully agree with you there but it must be an affiliated thing , My wife is a member of her local outdoor swimming club which is affiliated to both the ASA and BLDSA (swimming organisations) the club runs their events under either of the 2 depending on the type of event BUT to enter specific events organised by the other 2 organisations they have to also join that as well !! I personally would have said to be a member of an affiliated club is fine , however it appears not..



then why get affiliated to these types of organisations, what is the point
I join an organisation to get the use of it.
I feel these organisations do very little for the people they are meant to help
All these associations should think about what it is giving to the clubs and what it is there to do.
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The long Build

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2009, 05:30:40 pm »

I can only think it has something to do with Insurance, it seems to be just accepted. :((
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Liverbudgie2

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2009, 05:34:01 pm »

Hi Ernie,

Glad to see that you're still with us..........

I go along with Mal Reade on this one we did spend many fabulous weekends on the big lake at Windermere and at at Brid I seem to remember.

Fight your corner and don't let these petty little Hitlers get you down. The MPBA has been full of them for years, which is why I like the idea of forming an alternative organisation.

As far as I'm aware, being in club which is affiliated only gives you insurance cover.

As you can see I would never be a member of the MPBA, or any other organisation for that matter, for anything as they are a breeding ground for jumped up, selfserving a*** h****, in most cases anyway.

LB
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Leovilla

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2009, 05:38:36 pm »

The afiliated clubs dervie no benefit from the MPBA. My club Darlington & District Model Boat club has its own Insurance covering the members and committee against third party risks.

 Theres really only two reasdons for being a member oif the MPBA

1.  It provides third party insurance for individual members.   Affiliated clubs are not covered just the individuals who pay the individual membership fee.

2. MPBA nationls is ther only way one can qualify for a Naviga Wiorld Championship.

Other than that theres little else.


 
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nhp651

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2009, 05:39:26 pm »

May I put in my two penneth, and suggest that you seek a meeting at the next "surgery" with your local MP, and also make the incedent known to your area MEP (Member of the European Parliament)

This is a gross infringment upon your legal, civil and democratic liberties by a dictatorial group/individual and as such is Discrimination at grass routes level.

Both your local and area MP/MEP have far reaching legal clout which only you and I could dream about, and although most of us wonder what we pay for and vote for, it is at these times when you find that they CAN and DO help, and it is amazing how a letter in the first inst. to the offending bodies has a profound effect.

best of luck to you, Neil. >>:-( >>:-(
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The long Build

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2009, 05:49:01 pm »

2. MPBA nationls is ther only way one can qualify for a Naviga Wiorld Championship.

Stupid question I know, but Why in reference to point 2
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2009, 05:55:51 pm »


"We all know this subject is a hot topic and and we don't want Mayhem to be known as 'anti MPBA', therefore
     we'll allow open posts  until midnight Sunday to allow anyone to have their say and then lock the topic."

        ( Normal moderation rules apply. )

   Martin - Mayhem

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gingyer

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2009, 06:02:13 pm »

Martin, Could I ask for an extra days grace so it were for this thread.
The EGM that has been spoken of does not take place till tomorrow and
this would than allow the outcome and both parties involved time to put a reply
together (should they wish) afterwards

Colin
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Reade Models

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2009, 06:11:44 pm »

Martin

I don't think that anybody who has posted on this thread thus far has really been about MPBA bashing?  Perhaps just a tad?

Ernie has contributed massively to this hobby over many years, and is recognised both for his published articles and his tireless contributions to the hobby in general.  He also happens to be a very decent, likeable and honest bloke.

Banning Ernie Lazenby from the MPBA in my own humble opinion, is akin to banning God from Heaven - (but as you yourself would say, "What do I know")?

Malc
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Leovilla

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2009, 06:23:51 pm »


"We all know this subject is a hot topic and and we don't want Mayhem to be known as 'anti MPBA', therefore
     we'll allow open posts  until midnight Sunday to allow anyone to have their say and then lock the topic."

        ( Normal moderation rules apply. )

   Martin - Mayhem




Martin with the greatest respect to you for the excellent job you do this forum is one of very few places where mature debate/discussion can take place. If what has been done can be done to me it can be done to anyone be they member or possible member of the MPBA.  I dont think its MPBA bashing to allow a discussion on something so fundemental as the basic right of a person to be a member of his national organisation.

  Even more important is the right of a member of the national organisation to pass reasoned judgement on that organisation without worrying about being thrown out or banned. To cut short this debate is in its way doing exactly the same thing as what the MPBA has done to me. 
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justboatonic

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2009, 06:34:25 pm »

Im no expert on the organisation in question's regulations but, as I understand AGM \ EGM meeting's, a person can normally attend who isnt a member. Obviously they cant speak on any matter unless the meeting invites them to but, I dont think they can legally 'ban' any one from attending, closed association or not.

Good luck!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2009, 06:36:27 pm »

There are two ways to have membership of the MPBA. One is to join through an affiliated club, the other is to have personal membership of the MPBA Countrywide Club which is intended for people without a local affiliated club. There are a lot of affiliated clubs who only have a proportion of their members who are also members of the MPBA. The MPBA membership enables them to participate in MPBA official/sponsored events and gives an entree into international competition as only one association from each country is recognised by international organisations like NAVIGA. It also gives members insurance cover. Your club may be affiliated but MPBA membership is an optional personal thing. Many people don't feel the need for it although I have always continued my membership as a way of supporting the wider interests of the hobby.

I have been saddened to read of the preceding posts. These sort of disputes have arisen from time to time in the past in one section or another but wiser heads usually prevail and they do get resolved. Obviously the important thing is to get a resolution to the problem by sensible discussion rather than pouring petrol on the flames.

I'm not sure to what extent the modelling magazines will want to get involved in this sort of discussion, they usually prefer to stay well away in these circumstances and who can blame them.

Colin
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Bridkid

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2009, 07:02:53 pm »

There is of course another worrying factor and that is that some people have declared that this forthcoming EGM was called unconstitutionally and therefor is not legal. Those members who are attending at their own expense to try to sort the situation out and attempt to move forward may well find that after the event these 'people' will say that any or all of the decisions made are null and void and we will be back in the doldrums again.

I think I'll take up embroidery and finish with fast electrics!.................... <:(
Cheers,
Ian.
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Leovilla

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2009, 07:17:31 pm »

Colin I agree with much of what you have said but the option of discussion with those in charge has been denied me by a letter refusing my membership.

 They have made a mistake if they think I will let this pass. One of the benefits of working as a Solicitors Clerk after I retired is I have freely available legal advice and suffice  to say this evening I sought such. My character has been attacked and I have been advised to get in writing the specific details of the alleged behaviour warranting me being banned and also a written refernce to the relevant MPBA rules which have governed this action. My lawyer also wants written confirmation that the previous exec committee members took no action against me when my adverse comments about the MPBA appeared in print. He points out it is not for the current occupiers of the positions to applly retropsective sanctions.

 Thereafter the information will be passed to those with the nounce as to the way to proceed. This may cost me money but I am not going to let it pass; its perhaps time that a festering boil should be lanced.

 I am very reluctant to go down this route with volunteers in a hobby but what option do I have. At the very least I should have a written apology for the attack on my character. :((   Any costs involved by the MPBA ultimately come out of the members pockets!
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Leovilla

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2009, 07:20:43 pm »

There is of course another worrying factor and that is that some people have declared that this forthcoming EGM was called unconstitutionally and therefor is not legal. Those members who are attending at their own expense to try to sort the situation out and attempt to move forward may well find that after the event these 'people' will say that any or all of the decisions made are null and void and we will be back in the doldrums again.

I think I'll take up embroidery and finish with fast electrics!.................... <:(
Cheers,
Ian.


100% correct.  It has not been dealt with in acordance with the MPBA's own rules. Sadly Sundays meeting is not going to be the end of all this.

It is very sad that all these recent events in FE racing have taken place but its been a longtime brewing due to persoanlity clashes and it is very sad that it it dispirits people like Ian who I call a friend and who is a long time faithfull servant to the hobby.  My persoanl difficulties are only one small facet of the ongoing problems in the section.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2009, 07:47:32 pm »

Leovilla, my post was intended to simply explain the nature of MPBA membership as some people on here appear to be unclear about it. I have no wish to become involved in the dispute myself.

I would however say that, while I sympathise with your predicament and wish you every luck with obtaining an unbiased hearing, I don't see how airing on Mayhem the precise details of how you intend to seek a remedy serves any real useful purpose. As you will have seen from earlier posts, most Mayhem members are not MPBA members and are therefore unfamiliar with that organisation's constitution and rules. Apart from offering general sympathy they are not in a position to actually advance your cause unlike the your supporters within the organisation to whom you refer. Martin is anxious that Mayhem is not drawn into the dispute on the backs of member comments which are perhaps generalised and may not be seen as helpful to the resolution of the situation if more widely quoted.

The only way the dispute will be resolved is within the MPBA itself and I really do hope that it will reach a satisfactory conclusion.

Colin
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Leovilla

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2009, 08:05:26 pm »

Colin I accept what you say but my motives in airing this whole subject is to try and get those who serve the hobby as officials to listen to its members for once. I know that many members of the MPBA read this forum and who support all facets of model boating. Its been very clear for a long time that the organisation is disfunctional, and thats not to point the finger at any one individual for that serves no purpose; I know for a fact however there is a closed mind attitude towards members views and they take a bad view of anyone who asks questions.

 If this debate serves to provoke a wider debate then it has served a purpose.

 The purpose of these forums is to air issues that concern those involved in the hobby/sport and in many ways are the only way those members can air their views!  Propwash, the official MPBA newsletter does not serve that purpose.

If anyone feels I should not have raised the issue in the first place then I apologise if it offends them.


Ernie Lazenby
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omra85

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2009, 08:12:42 pm »

Unfortunately, in any association which relies on members volunteering to give up time and money to 'govern' the hobby, there will always be 'ulterior' motives for some people offering to serve.  The NEC have such members and although they are (theoretically) working to improve the Association can, and do, often get sidetracked from important issues with petty 'differences'.  There is nothing worse than a model boater who is vehemently against another model boat discipline - more so than if they were 'passing judgement' on a person involved in a completely different hobby!
The MPBA is LARGE and diverse, and it is this very diversity which causes problems occasionally.  A serious difficulty seems that, very often, the NEC are not even aware of any problems until they get out of hand!  There is NO mechanism for feedback apart from individual NEC members bringing comments back from meetings with members. But where do these meetings happen - at the side of the lake with maybe a few of the section followers.
It would be nice if ordinary people (not necessarily MPBA members) had some way of expressing their views and what they want from a National association supposedly representing them.  It seems that the only way of expressing concerns is to "vote with your feet" and not join/rejoin but this defeats the object in that the NEC STILL do not know what the problem is!
This is where the Mayhem forum is invaluable. Were it not for this, many of us would not even be aware of Ernie's difficulties, much less be able to comment on them!
Given the circulation of such magazines as Model Boats and Marine Modeller, one would expect the membership of the only 'official' National body to have memberships of many thousands. Perhaps the MPBA, who have been given the recognition of being the governing body, should ask themselves why many model boaters refuse, or can't be bothered, to join?
Obviously I have my own reasons for not renewing my membership and do not propose to air them here, but it is a great disappointment that there is no way to express my feelings. One suggestion may be to hold MPBA "surgeries" where questions from ex/potential members could be answered by someone in "authority" (even an MPBA forum may prove invaluable).

Ernie, I hope you will keep us informed of proceedings as the outcome may effect or interest many of us.

Danny
 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2009, 08:30:30 pm »

Danny, I think the idea of the MPBA establishing its own Internet Forum is an excellent one. That way we wouldn't have to rely upon third party media to carry the message.

I do know that the Editor of Model Boats has offered space to the MPBA to promote their interests and news but it has not been taken up which I think is a matter for regret. My own hobby is scale model boating and it is evident that interest in this within the MPBA has fallen right away in recent years but I think that this is simply because many modellers have moved away from competitive regattas in favour of free sailing events.

I think that both you and Ernie are right in that the MPBA has rather lost its original role in some areas and needs to have a rethink on how it could better represent the hobby. I agree that Propwash, although taking a good deal of well meaning effort to produce, probably doesn't meet the needs of the membership as well as it could. I certainly would agree that the MPBA needs a much stronger online presence and a Forum attached to their website should breathe new life into the organisation. Of course they'd need much stricter moderators than we have here on mayhem... %)
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Reade Models

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2009, 08:47:15 pm »

Of course they'd need much stricter moderators than we have here on mayhem... %)

Said he. (Speaking from the dark side...)  {-)

Malc


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Colin Bishop

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2009, 08:51:40 pm »

Plenty of light up here Malc...  :} :} :}
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Reade Models

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2009, 08:53:01 pm »

Plenty of light up here Malc...  :} :} :}

Up?  Really?  {-) {-) {-)

Malc


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BarryM

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Re: No Democracy In the MPBA
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2009, 09:35:14 am »


"We all know this subject is a hot topic and and we don't want Mayhem to be known as 'anti MPBA', therefore
     we'll allow open posts  until midnight Sunday to allow anyone to have their say and then lock the topic."

        ( Normal moderation rules apply. )

   Martin - Mayhem



Martin,
By definition a Forum is a place for open debate. If leovilla had offered obscenities, personal abuse or any comment that could lead to action for libel, then by all means lock the subject.

However, he has done none of these. He has stated his case, clarified points raised and responded to other postings. If others wish to put opposing views then the means is open to them right here.

The task of a Moderator is to arbitrate and be impartial without fear of offending any party while at the same time defending the right to free speech. To state any intention of locking the subject because it might provoke criticism from other quarters is censorship plain and simple.

Regards

Barry M
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