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[kusuchi]

Hi.......How long runing time do you have,,,And,,,how mouch water can the boiler take,,

Regards Bernhard

Hi Bernard,

The M,H & B boiler has a capacity of 0.5 litres, although I've never measured the exact quantity used to fill the boiler to within 3mm of the top of the sight glass.

As for running time, M,H & B state 20 minutes.  On our pool we ran it for 30 minutes, with quite a lot of high speed action and water to spare.  Run at a more sedate 'scale' speed with the gas tank turned down I suspect she would easily run for an hour.

Best,

[Chuffy]

Hi Kusuchi,

Could you please tell me how the gas tank is filled, do you take it out of the boat or what?

I said I would never get back into steam but............

Regards,

Paul.

[kusuchi]

Hi Kusuchi,

Could you please tell me how the gas tank is filled, do you take it out of the boat or what?

I said I would never get back into steam but............

Regards,

Paul.

Yes, Paul, the gas tank is removed from the boat for filling.  Undo the knurled nut on top of the boiler and the gas tank pops right out from it's concealed location on the starboard side.  As you most undoubtedly know, Gas is heavier than Air, so refilling outside the launch is essential to avoid potential catastrophe.

[kusuchi]

For the skeptics among you, here is the first video of Topaz running at sea.  Shot at Magen's Bay, the video footage isn't great, and because of the recent algae bloom, the water isn't nearly as clear as it normally is.  The next video will be shot at Lundquist Beach, where the water conditions are so clear I hope to be able to capture fish swimming under the launch.  I'll also try to use a tripod for steadier images.  Quite how I'm going to set it up in the water I have yet to determine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0-qdr4Jtks

Because of the heat here, the vapour pressure is very high.  Even with the 70/30 gas burner completely turned down the boiler rapidly develops 3 bar of pressure.  This, together with my nine year old son's enthusiasm,  accounts for the high operating speeds you see in this video.  Brian Marten recommended the installation of insulation between the boiler and the gas tank!

[Chuffy]

Thanks for the reply kusuchi , I suspected that this would be the case although I had read somewhere on this forum that there was a method of filling the gas tanks that did not require the removal of the tank.

The vids of your Topaz on Utube pushed me over the edge and about three weeks ago I ordered one from M,H & B with one of their boilers and an Anton Christal engine, still got another two weeks to wait.

And I said........................................

My last Steam build was a D & S Steam Engineering 1/3rd scale Garrett traction engine and my introduction to steam was a Borkum with a Cheddar steam plant, what goes around comes around.

Paul.

[kusuchi]

Thanks for the reply kusuchi , I suspected that this would be the case although I had read somewhere on this forum that there was a method of filling the gas tanks that did not require the removal of the tank.

The vids of your Topaz on Utube pushed me over the edge and about three weeks ago I ordered one from M,H & B with one of their boilers and an Anton Christal engine, still got another two weeks to wait.

And I said........................................

My last Steam build was a D & S Steam Engineering 1/3rd scale Garrett traction engine and my introduction to steam was a Borkum with a Cheddar steam plant, what goes around comes around.

Paul.

Hi paul,

Sounds like you've built some fine steam models!

Here is a short video clip showing the removal of the Gas Tank;





Sent to me by our very own Rosyth, the builder of this launch, it clearly illustrates the removal of the Gas Tank for filling.  Although the 'wiggle and a waggle' may be unique to Yorkshire parlance, the advice demonstrates the same conscientious expertise he put in to the build.   Whilst I have not read the thread for advice on filling gas tanks in situ, I would be inclined to be very wary of this approach.  Any spilled gas will sink to the bottom of the hull, providing opportunity for spontaneous combustion of the most undesirable kind.

Der Seekadett now seems imminent as my next acquisition.

[gondolier88]

Hi Kusuchi,

Just to point a couple of things out to you-

1-
[/quote]
Any spilled gas will sink to the bottom of the hull, providing opportunity for spontaneous combustion of the most undesirable kind.
[/quote]

You are correct in saying the gas willl collect at the bottom of the boat- this is the Butane component of 70/30 gas- propane, being lighter than air evaporates- this is good as Butane is far less calorific than Propane and is less likely to explode.

2- SPONTANEOUS combustion WILL NOT occur!!! Gas, sat by itself at the bottom of the boat is the safest thing in the world, until IGNITION of some sort is added- be it the piezo ignition for the boiler, the burner flame itself or a spark from any electrical components. For butane to be explosive it needs to have a ratio of gas to air of 3-13%- this is quite a concentration of gas, and very unlikely to build upto that level purely by filling the gas tank- 3% and below it flashes off VERY quickly with little heat given out (just singed eyebrows and a wounded ego ). Above 13% and it will burn inneficiently- ie. with a yellow flame and smoke, but still intense heat.

3- The safest way of filling a gas tank IS to remove it from the boat, however IF you can REMOVE all traces of gas from the vessel before any ignition can come into contact- so thats no piezo's bieng sparked, definitely no burner on (though you'd have to be fairly daft to attempt to fill the gas tank while the burner is lit!) and all electrics turned off, and you really can't remove the gas tank, then don't worry about it- just give the boat a thorough 'blowing' through under the floors, or better still, if everything is fixed down securely, tip the boat usidedown.

Hope this has made fairly irrational fears into objective rational ones.

Greg

[kusuchi]

Hi Kusuchi,

Just to point a couple of things out to you-

1-

Any spilled gas will sink to the bottom of the hull, providing opportunity for spontaneous combustion of the most undesirable kind.


You are correct in saying the gas willl collect at the bottom of the boat- this is the Butane component of 70/30 gas- propane, being lighter than air evaporates- this is good as Butane is far less calorific than Propane and is less likely to explode.

2- SPONTANEOUS combustion WILL NOT occur!!! Gas, sat by itself at the bottom of the boat is the safest thing in the world, until IGNITION of some sort is added- be it the piezo ignition for the boiler, the burner flame itself or a spark from any electrical components. For butane to be explosive it needs to have a ratio of gas to air of 3-13%- this is quite a concentration of gas, and very unlikely to build upto that level purely by filling the gas tank- 3% and below it flashes off VERY quickly with little heat given out (just singed eyebrows and a wounded ego ). Above 13% and it will burn inneficiently- ie. with a yellow flame and smoke, but still intense heat.

3- The safest way of filling a gas tank IS to remove it from the boat, however IF you can REMOVE all traces of gas from the vessel before any ignition can come into contact- so thats no piezo's bieng sparked, definitely no burner on (though you'd have to be fairly daft to attempt to fill the gas tank while the burner is lit!) and all electrics turned off, and you really can't remove the gas tank, then don't worry about it- just give the boat a thorough 'blowing' through under the floors, or better still, if everything is fixed down securely, tip the boat usidedown.

Hope this has made fairly irrational fears into objective rational ones.

Greg

Sorry Greg,

Very poor choice of language on my behalf.  Of course 'spontaneous' combustion will not occur.  I had anticipated combustion from the electrical system or burner ignition.  I should take more care reviewing my posts!

Thanks for the useful information on butane air ratios and their potential implications.

I will, however, continue to remove my tank for filling.

[gondolier88]

Hi Kusuchi,

I didn't think you had realised what you had said!  Just didn't want greenhorns thinking it could spontaneously combust!

As long as we conduct our hobby safely and with common sense we will live in peace, long may it stay so.

Greg

[Bunkerbarge]

I fill my own gas tank in situ in a safe a convenient manner as already described on other threads here.  If you understand the hazards involved and take the appropriate precautions it is a perfectly safe procedure.

[AlexC]

 

Hi guy's

Gondolier88 states: -

"You are correct in saying the gas will collect at the bottom of the boat- this is the Butane component of 70/30 gas- propane, being lighter than air evaporates".


NOT SO....... I am sorry to say........ 'Propane' gas has a specific gravity of 1.53 and 'Butane' gas has a specific gravity of 2.0 whilst 'Air' (dry) has a specific gravity of 1.0

Both gasses are HEAVIER than AIR and WILL collect in the bottom of a ships/boats hull if you get any leakage whilst filling a gas tank retained in the hull when using the normal method of filling. (this being the use of a 'Ronson' type fill valve where the supply tank is inserted into the fill point, usually on the top of the tank)

If using this method then you should allways remove the gas tank for refilling.

BB's method makes use of a custom built filling arrangement which vents outside the hull and is perfectly safe.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Play safe guy's.

Best regards.

AlexC

[ROSYTH]

Hi Richard, how embarrassing  :embarrassed:to see one's home made video on public viewing forums and my voice sounds strange too .......I had forgotton all about that instruction
DVD i made for you so long ago.
One GOOD THING though, it has actually had an impact with one other forum member going to MHB and parting with his folding stuff for another fine model to grace
the ponds and waters of the UK so well done to him and I hope he enjoys it as much as we have in years to come, well done.

How is the hunt going for the latest launch, Der Seekadett? Like Hen's teeth to get hold of unless buying new off course........keep looking though and let me know if you do too ok

Cheers for now

[gondolier88]

Hi AlexC,

Very sorry, your quite right, I should have checked on the SG of propane , I thought with it being next in line to methane it was light enough to not sink- however advice still stands, just don't expect it to be just butane in the bottom of the boat.

Greg

[kusuchi]

Hi Richard, how embarrassing  :embarrassed:to see one's home made video on public viewing forums and my voice sounds strange too .......I had forgotton all about that instruction
DVD i made for you so long ago.
One GOOD THING though, it has actually had an impact with one other forum member going to MHB and parting with his folding stuff for another fine model to grace
the ponds and waters of the UK so well done to him and I hope he enjoys it as much as we have in years to come, well done.

How is the hunt going for the latest launch, Der Seekadett? Like Hen's teeth to get hold of unless buying new off course........keep looking though and let me know if you do too ok

Cheers for now

Sorry Wal, (Cliff),

Didn't mean to embarrass you. Guess I should have asked your permission before posting.  Please forgive me!  Although only a small extract from the entire video, I have had many compliments on the precise and completely exhaustive contents of your instructional video.  The definitive work on the subject.

Hen's teeth seem no problem to come by.  Der Seekadett is a totally different matter.

Finally have a concrete lead and will E mail you shortly to catch up with our mutual news.

Best,

[kusuchi]

Have commissioned a Display Case for Topaz which should be ready this weekend.  Not so much for show.  More to protect her from the salt air.  With all the tiny brass fittings this is the most difficult piece I own to clean!

In preparation I have stripped the boat down for cleaning.  MH&B recommend the removal of the engine for periodic cleaning, but I also removed the boiler and stripped all the fittings.

Some pictures:




The stripped down launch.




The engine compartment, showing the Universal Joint, the starboard forward/reverse servo and the port throttle servo.




The MH&B Boiler and Anton Crystal Engine.




Boiler Detail




Engine Detail




Engine Detail with watch for scale.
_________________
Richard

[kusuchi]

Reassembly.

First the engine and boiler:






Then the steam valve, displacement lubricator, throttle valve, separation tank, gas tank and partial decking.  Hooked up the servos and am now waiting for the RC to charge so I can test them before adding additional decking.




_________________
Richard

[kusuchi]

Servos adjusted and final decking fitted.



_________________
Richard

[Bernhard]

Hey...........have you see this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Der-Seekadett-live-model-steam-boat_W0QQitemZ190319935473QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item2c4ff3bff1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A2%7C294%3A50

Regards Bernhard

[Proteus]

They are a very nice engine I have been after one for a few years now , I think I may of seen that boat sail a few years ago it's nice , the sail price for one of these a few years ago (boat that is ) was about £4,500 I Heard of two sell for around this price and one for a bit more, fortunately although I really like the engine I am not a fan on the boat or I would have to think about selling the  the kids.they are prity fast though with that engine in and very smooth.


Proteus,

[kusuchi]

They are a very nice engine I have been after one for a few years now , I think I may of seen that boat sail a few years ago it's nice , the sail price for one of these a few years ago (boat that is ) was about £4,500 I Heard of two sell for around this price and one for a bit more, fortunately although I really like the engine I am not a fan on the boat or I would have to think about selling the  the kids.they are prity fast though with that engine in and very smooth.


Proteus,

You may be right, Proteus, but obviously the Seller wasn't expecting that number.  Currently the highest bidder is at 1500 pounds, and the reserve is already met.

[kusuchi]

Fenders are in the wash and I still have to work on the stand, but..........................