Topic: Lead Ballast Supplies (Read 18150 times)

polaris · « **Reply #25 on:** October 13, 2006, 07:05:27 pm »

No, no Churches without lead I'm pleased to say!!! The house it was on is certainly without it though! - mind you, the rest of the house isn't there either... it's somewhere else now and part of a road! What is sold as lead these days isn't all lead, it's still quite heavy but has other compounds in it - don't ask me what as I've forgotten just at the moment. Lead shot is no longer used in modern shotgun carts., it's steel.

tigertiger · « **Reply #26 on:** October 14, 2006, 03:19:14 am »

Quote from: polaris on October 13, 2006, 07:05:27 pm

Lead shot is no longer used in modern shotgun carts., it's steel.

Yep, we don't want the pheasant getting lead poisoning

They are stupid enough as it is ::)

cbr900 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 14, 2006, 07:52:00 am »

They are really getting a bit carried away with all this political correctness rubbish, steel pellets for shotguns, if you shoot a bird with a shotgun steel or lead it's still dead........

Roy

Malc Reade · « **Reply #28 on:** October 14, 2006, 08:51:18 am »

True, but then it won't comply with the RoHS Directives...

Regards, Malc

polaris · « **Reply #29 on:** October 14, 2006, 10:18:46 pm »

Umm, I understand what people mean, but it has to be said that shooting some 60t + of lead per year around the countryside is not the best of things to do really in this day and age. At least steel simply rusts away. I used to go and watch a competition clay pidgeon shoot many years ago that was held annually for about ten years or so (finished about ten or more years ago), the large field where it was held can't be grazed now because of the lead content. Anyway, lead in our vessels(!), isn't great threat to the environment, as in the main we can recover them if - God forbid! - something goes wrong. Does anyone know if we can buy some kind of locating 'beacon' to install in our ships to locate them if they might happen go down 200yds or so from the 'shore'? Might sound a bit silly I know, but if we might have £500 + worth of boat at the bottom of a 10' to 20' deep lake, at least we could ask the local diving club to retrieve it! - with accuracy.

malcolmfrary · « **Reply #30 on:** October 14, 2006, 10:27:23 pm »

As a beacon - perhaps a cork on a length of line a bit longer than the depth of the water on the topside of the boat. Problem then is to disguise it as something thats supposed to be there before the boat sinks.

Malc Reade · « **Reply #31 on:** October 14, 2006, 10:38:02 pm »

Malcolm

The simple ideas are always the best, and that one is brilliant! You've given me an idea - can we have a chat about it next weekend?

Regards, Malc

malcolmfrary · « **Reply #32 on:** October 14, 2006, 10:46:28 pm »

Hi Malc
As its my clubs show, and Bernard has been dropping hints by giving me "How to do a show" lessons, I might be a bit busy, but if you can catch me........
MalcolmF

Malc Reade · « **Reply #33 on:** October 15, 2006, 06:46:29 am »

Malcolm

Bernard has been the impresario for many fine shows at Blackpool.

If he does decide to take a very well deserved break, you can be assured that both Blackpool MBC and yourself would have the full and unequivocal support of both Carol and I. I also believe that you would have the full support of the whole of the trade in general.

My best regards, Malcolm

cbr900 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 16, 2006, 03:01:28 am »

One idea that is used over here is to make a small hatch with a loose fitting lid, which will float off if the unforeseen happens and the boat sinks, make a large coil of line rest in the bottom of the hatch box with a small float, then when the old girl goes down the float pops up and the line can be retrieved carefully....

Roy

polaris · « **Reply #35 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:58:50 pm »

Roy, I had thought of this one, and it is a good idea, however, if the vessel turns turtle and sinks that way, the concealed float might not do exactly what we want it to do. I feel Malcolm's idea of 'something' loose on the deck - unhindered - is the v.best way in that it will definitely 'fall off' whatever happens and whichever way it might happen: it's just a matter of stowing the line in a way that it will definitely release or uncoil itself properly. Coiling it up nice and tidily cannot always be relied upon, as nice coiled ropes etc. can get themselves into a real mess all by themselves sometimes, whereas a loose uncoiled 'pack' has no 'drag' and should release quickly. Ideas anyway!

Aston · « **Reply #36 on:** October 16, 2006, 10:42:44 pm »

you could always make a liferaft float off with fine fishing line attached.

Also worth remembering that the boat is much lighter when in the water and full of the stuff than when you are carrying it around on the surface.

Something like ten pound line secured properly will probably be enough to bring a lot of models back to just below the surface where it can be grabbed before lifting clear of the water.

One of our members had the bad luck to sink his Applegarth tug at Rawdon Tarn a while back :'( While it was sinking, knowing the rescue boat would not be manned and out there in time, two of us ran to opposite ends of the sailing area and took a line of sight beyond the model to the far bank

When I then got out in the rescue boat, we were guided to the same position by the markers, and as the water is very clear, I could soon see the white superstructure of the boat - though several feet underwater. with the help of a leaf rake I had picked up from the clubhouse, and a wet arm :( ( it was deep) I managed to snag the rake in the very light stay for the foremast. being gentle with it, I managed to raise it almost to the surface and then while it was still under ( and light) grabbed it - more wet sleeves - all intact and sailing again the next week

. None of us would have beleived that such light rigging could have lifted the boat

cbr900 · « **Reply #37 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:58:23 pm »

Polaris,

As you say it may turn turtle, but even so the would be very little chance of the thing sinking upside down and settling on the bottom the same way some where in that time it would release.

Aston,

Your idea of a life raft is even simpler and would work regardless, as for pulling up a boat as long as you are gentle on the line even 4lb breaking strain will lift a thirty pound boat to near the surface, because as you say when it is full of water it weighs virtually zero........

Roy

polaris · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2006, 07:32:32 pm »

Roy, I understand where you are coming from, but one 'never knows' so to speak. The life raft idea is indeed a v.good idea, and would be easy to install... however, one must consider where the line is to be attached: Viz., the area of attachment must be capable taking the weight of the vessel - the line has a 20lb strain so this must equate to the area of attachment being capable of taking the same loading. Please do not missinterpret my reply to being pedantic! - not so!

cbr900 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 18, 2006, 12:55:14 am »

What I have done is the line goes through the bottom of the hatch and attaches to the hull bulkhead down in the bowels, using either of the three ideas spoken about so far would not create any problem....

Roy

polaris · « **Reply #40 on:** October 18, 2006, 07:23:02 pm »

Solid idea Roy! I like this life raft idea and will endeavour to use it. I am now thinking about the 'normal' detachable access superstructure sections and how to keep these all in one place! Regards, Bernard2 (I understand there is another Bernard on here, so will sign Bernard2 from now on in case of confusion!).

polaris · « **Reply #41 on:** October 19, 2006, 05:43:24 pm »

If our detachable superstructures were fitted with these 'balloon' type packagaing matarial things (about 5" x 4" - need only light gluing), not only would we benefit by weight, but with line attached we would also benefit by no loss - being a back-up against 'loss'. Granted some of these sections fall off more easily than others, but we would have additional guarantee without compromising weight. Just ideas that's all.

Roger in France · « **Reply #42 on:** November 10, 2006, 06:44:59 am »

As I said elsewhere, I have been having computer problems and so I am playing catch up.

Two thoughts on recovery devices:
1. If you have problems with coiling (rather, un-coiling) the line when she sinks and the float does not pull clear, how about a line wound onto a VERY free running drum?
2. I read somwhere of a modeller who secures his "float" to the deck with a sugar solution. Applied wet to the deck and the float, it dries and prevents the float moving under normal usage but if sunk the sugar dissolves and after a few seconds the float rises.

Have not tried it myself.

Roger in France.

polaris · « **Reply #43 on:** November 10, 2006, 10:41:38 am »

Dear Roger,

Thankyou for the ideas. The reel idea is not bad, but the problem is making sure the line can exit freely: a lead eye would work of course, but we would have to make sure that there was sufficient pull to drag the line through - partic. if the vessel is on it's side. At the end of the day the simplest way is best, and I am more inclined towards something loose on the deck - two things preferably. We must consider rigging (don't want line or float snagging it), so maybe Bow or Stern is better. The 'keeping' of the line is the only problem to over come really... only needs to be sufficient for the deepest lake we sail out vessels on, but it does depend on whether we are going to use the line to raise the vessel so breaking strain must then be considered. I am sure there is a very easy solution to all this... will get there in the end!

cbr900 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 10, 2006, 11:27:07 am »

Polaris,

It was stated somewhere else on the forum, that the weight of a boat under water is not very much, so therefore you would not need all that strong a line as long as when retrieving you did so slowly and slowed near the surface......>

Roy

polaris · « **Reply #45 on:** November 10, 2006, 07:24:48 pm »

Dear Roy,

True in part. Any 'floatable' material will of course be lighter, but 'dead weight' items will remain the same (metal, batteries, ballast and the like) - viz., 1 kilo of lead weighs the same in or out of the water. So, it's best to calculate the lifting weight from the actual 'dead weight' total.

Regards, Bernard2

tobyker · « **Reply #46 on:** November 11, 2006, 12:07:43 pm »

Old batteries always a good source - drain the acid carefully into a glass jar and use it for pickling after silver soldering, and if you cut the top off the casing it makes a useful tool stand - I keep all my big screwdrivers in one. A chap writing in Wooden Boat magazine described how he went scuba diving under the local fishing bridge and collected enouh lost weights for his 1:1 scale yacht. I found a roll of flashing on the London Embankment while commuting to work 30 years ago. By the time I'd stopped my bike and turned round a routemaster had run over it but I tied it to the seat and got it to work. Ruined a pair of civil service scissors cutting it in 2 to get it home but still have some - very useful. If you want to cast ballast, make a plaster of paris mould for small elegant yacht keels or 575s but for big slabs cut the shape out of a plank, bolt another underneath and line the hole with an aluminium takeaway box. Don't have any water/damp in the mould or wood - it will flash into steam and blow molten lead all over you.

OneBladeMissing · « **Reply #47 on:** November 11, 2006, 05:29:34 pm »

Lead ballast supplies?
Have you tried the church roof?

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Author Topic: Lead Ballast Supplies (Read 18150 times)

Malc Reade

Malc Reade

Malc Reade

Aston

Roger in France