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[vincedaines]

i have an early 60's motor which i really want to use in my referb of a norfolk cruiser, i have rigged it up to a Graupner x-306, added a speed controller (Graupner), problem is it only goes forward atm, when pulling the control down for reverse it just goes forward again, the motor has 3 terminals,Battery-Forward-Reverse, any ideas on how to wire in the reverse terminal would be appreciated

[andrewh]

Taycol double special, I think

A friend of mine ran one in his Torpedo boat in the mid1960s

There was a comparative test with a 550 in Model boats about a year ago - I will see if I can find it

Should work if the mechanical parts are cleamn and oiled

andrew

[vincedaines]

that'd be great thx, i've had this since i was born, last time i connected it up was about 20-25 years ago, plugged it in last week and it ran as sweet as anything

[stallspeed]

If you want reverse,you need a permanent magnet motor,all four terminals or a split supply.
With photos of the prop,a suitable alternative permanent magnet motor could be suggested.

[BarryM]

As I understand it, he wants to use this motor. Does it go into reverse if you swop the negative to the 'Reverse' terminal? If so you need a form of switcher as well as a speed control.

Barry M

[andyn]

If you have a look at his diagram, there is a bolt on the motor marked reverse...

[BarryM]

That's why I'm asking .

[nhp651]

I do believe that the old Taycol motors won't go into reverse.........they ( don't know the technical terms) don't have the correct technology of modern motors, and even swapping polarity will not do the trick. they were built for forward propulsion only, and will not even give variable speed forward with an esc.
The only way to operate with variable speed AND  forward reverse is to fit the boat with a viriable pitch propellor.
I know, as I once tried to do what you are trying now.
In the end I sold 3 of them on ebay and bought a motor that would .
sorry will modify this post by saying that my taycols were only the single marine, not double, so might be different, but I had two smaller ones ( forget the names) and they wouldn't go in reverse either.

[vincedaines]

ok, just tried the reverse terminal and yes it does work, (variable speed does work in forward) so need some kind of switcher for reverse, thx for all input so far, i'm certailnly making some headway

[OMK]

Vince, if I understand your photo correctly, I've seen several models with this particular layout being used to good effect. A standard 16-amp micro-switch should be good to go for your motor.

[OMK]

Nearly forgot....

In case FLJ may be earwigging, I need to hijack your thread to ask him to drop me a line at my home email address (not the hotmail or PMs).

Thanks.
Your photo gives a hint of a neat cruiser, by the way. Scratch build?

[GG]

Anything wrong with using a Bridge Rectifier in either the field or armature circuits?
I always thought that Taycol motor were notorious for electrical interference, would this make them a good test subject for 2.4 GHz radio outfits?
GlynnG

[malcolmfrary]

Anything wrong with using a Bridge Rectifier in either the field or armature circuits?

Just two big knobbly diodes.  In PMKs drawing, one in the forward lead facing "in", one in the reverse lead facing "out", and common the loose ends ends, dispense with the switch and its servo. 
The diodes will have to be rated for the full motor current plus a goodly bit for luck. 
I had a long discussion a few years ago on the old MB forum with a guy doing just this.  It worked, but interference was a major problem.  While 2.4G has a very robust signal, locally generated BF&I interference might well reduce range very significantly.

[GG]

Always thought a Bridge rectifier had four diodes
GlynnG

[sweeper]

My few pennies worth on the topic.
1. There was quite a thread on this very topic some time ago on this forum.
2. The motor has a wound field system. To obtain reverse one of two methods can be used i.e. reverse the field connections OR reverse the connections to the armature. Use one or other method, if you simply reverse the battery polarity the motor will continue to run in the previous direction.
3. With loads of respect to PMK (mornings Pete), I'd be very wary of using a microswitch for this rig. They are not designed for DC operation, the contact clearances are minimal and when used to break an inductive load (which this is most certainly) you may just find that the contacts are fried rapidly or welded together due to the arc. (A lesson I learned many years ago in industry  ).

By modern standards these motors are rather crude and can be electrically noisy, but they do work!

Hope this helps.
Regards

[OMK]

"3. With loads of respect to PMK (mornings Pete), I'd be very wary of using a microswitch for this rig."

The ones I saw mostly all used just a single 16-amp switch. Like you, one bloke in particular must have had the same doubts because I noticed he had two switches bolted together, connected in parallel. But, weird as it sounds, those running on just one didn't experience any of what you'd usually expect. I figgered the reason they weren't popping microswitches all over the place is maybe because those motors weren't as power hungry as they looked.
Still weird though, all things considering.

Yes - morning to you too, Mr S.  Did the house move go without snag, snitch, hitch, burp, belch or fart?

[bogstandard]

These motors have been done to death.

Just put a search in for Taycol, read the posts that come up, dump the motor, and go for one that will work correctly.

No matter which way you look at it, you are going to be in for hell of a hiding to get it running sweet and interference free, so cut your losses, and forget about it. It is you who will have to do all the work, and pay for the mods to get it into (if ever) an acceptable state, not the people giving advice. Use the money to buy a good, modern motor.

Ignore all the 'well you should keep these old motors going' and such crap, and bring yourself into the real modern world, no matter how much it reminds you of grandad or whoever.

If you want to use it, put it on the floor for holding the door open in the summer.

I put mine to use in my shop, driving a Martek drill grinder instead of an electric drill, using a battery charger as a power source (picture if needed).


Bogs

[Inkmark]

To add to the rest, don't use it.
I have one in my 'museum' of old stuff, took it out of a model 25+ years ago because it was so electrically poor
that the radios of that time could not cope, turned any radio model, instantly into free running.
'Interesting but stupid' to quote a line from the past.
They use a lot of power too, and the smell from the brushes arcing under load is not for everyone.
Mark

[kiwimodeller]

It depends on your sense of history, I find it much more satisfying to run an old boat with an old motor. I have run several different Taycol motors and still regularly run my Sea Queen with a Taycol Double Special which is the largest in the range. If you look carefully on the end or on the brass mounting bracket it should have the model name of the engine. It was help from this and the Model Boats forums that let me get it sorted. Yes you use a bridge rectifier, only use three terminals on it and you get reverse. Yes they are noisy and create interference but with modern suppression methods such as capacitors and resistors between the terminals and from the terminals to the motor frame plus Ferrites on the leads mine is reliable as far away as I can see it. With a 12volt 7 ah SLA battery I get hours of running. In summary it can be done, it can work well and "is it worth the extra trouble" depends on whether you want a piece of history in working order or the same setup as everybody else has got. Cheers, Ian.

[BarryM]

What's the scrap price of all that copper wiring?  Must be worth a bit?

[Vintage]

It depends on your sense of history, I find it much more satisfying to run an old boat with an old motor.

Well said that man 

Mark

[andrewh]

Vincedaines
I don't generally do advice, but in this case I would happily advise you to do whatever seems good to you

It will work, its a genuine conversation piece, it can be reversed by the microswitch method proposed.
(If you are not changing from forwards to reverse under big loads the rating of the microswitch hardly matters (nor the cost if it gets distressed)

I will try and do what I first offered and find the spiel in MB and send it to you
andrew

[malcolmfrary]

Always thought a Bridge rectifier had four diodes
GlynnG

Indeed it does, but in this application it isn't really needed. It sounds like Kiwimodeller has effectively done just that by not using the entire bridge.  The original idea of using a bridge rectifier was to ensure that current was applied to either the field or brushes in the same direction at all times, as its the reversal of one or the other that causes reverse.
But as others have said, unless there is a strong emotional case for using the old motor, a modern one will do the job much better.

[vincedaines]

thx all for the replies, i do see the point of modernisation, i have just made a mouting bracket for a new engine and fitted it, test run on my pond and its great, But the whole point of rebuilding atm is nostalgia, its a lot more interesting for me to try to get the old technology working to todays standards (almost) so i have ordered the parts so i can at least say i tried, all the points made seem valid to me, therefore i think when i have finished i shall be making another, i have never come across a forum that has been as helpful as this one, i shall post some pics when its all done and dusted. thanks again vince

[andyn]

nostalgia

i have never come across a forum that has been as helpful as this one

Nostalgia is simply heroin for old people I do however have certain nostalgic feelings (even though I'm 17...), I think it's more the retro side of things. This is why I have a collection of all three marks of Merco .61, there's nothing like the plumes of smoke, smell and greasey oiley stuff that comes out of them, even if they do have the power of a Moulinex Magimix...

This is indeed a great forum, that I and many others are proud to be part of, welcome to the nuthouse