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Author Topic: empire tug steam conversion  (Read 12020 times)

knoby

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empire tug steam conversion
« on: May 24, 2009, 11:13:26 pm »




Having operated this model under electric power for some time, i decided the time was right to convert her to steam. I  wanted a steam powered boat capable of being used in regattas, as my previous four steam models have required a little too much 'tinkering with' during sailing to make then effective regatta boats & to this end i have been collecting parts for this project for some time.

There were several things i wished to be incorporated into this build, First, a valve engine. they tend to be far more steam efficient than oscillators & also i am fascinated by the working of them Second, some form of automatic boiler control. Third, side water tanks for the boiler replenishment. I wanted reasonable water capacity & feel 2 tanks mounted centrally will lesson the effect the weight loss, as the water diminishes, will have on the way she sits on her water line. (scale judges hate models that don't sit on their water line). & finally i wanted the steam plant to look like it was installed rather than thrown in ( something i have been guilty of in previous models) Over several years i have collected the follwing parts, so the steam plant will consist of  Cheddar Gemini engine ( with water pump) 3.5 inch x 9 inch centre flue boiler & a cheddar automatic boiler control unit.

First stop was this forum. Reading relevant articles, i was able to ask questions as they arose in my mind & get almost instant replies. At this point i must thank everyone here who did reply to the questions, I'm sure there will be plenty more before this is finished. I especially found Bunkerbarge's Ben Ain build very helpful & also an inspiration on how a steam plant should look when u put it in a boat, so a special thanks to him for posting such a useful build.

First stage was to remove the old electric power plant & make up some base plates to mount the new installation on. Card was used to make templates for both the base plates & the side tanks before cutting them out of metal; brass for the base & copper for the side tanks, for no better reason than thats what i had. Side tanks were made longer than required & divide them into 3 compartments, the middle 1 to hold the water & the 2 ends to house electrical equipment. Card was again used to make templates for the side tank bulkheads, before cutting them out in copper & silver soldering into place.At this point some tank baffles were also fitted to stop the water sloshing around, not sure if they were required but it was easier to fit them now than find out they were needed later. I also remembered to cut holes in the end bulkheads to allow wires to run into end compartments & water outlet pipes in the tanks, before fiberglassing the whole lot into place along with the mounting rails for the base plates. Once set,  the tanks were tested for leaks. 1 small leak on the port tank was discovered.& easily rectified by running some resin along the bottom of the tank.Next, some 4mm brass angle was glued along the inside top of each compartment to allow the tops to be glued in to place, although the tops were not glued on at this point.











will post more as it gets done

cheers glenn
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 04:17:06 am »

Thanks for the compliments Glenn, I'm looking forward to seeing how you tackle this.  I've actually toyed with the idea of fitting a steam plant to my Envoy Class tug but never had the courage to rip out a very reliable and easy to operate electric plant.  Maybe one day.
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gondolier88

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 07:38:05 am »

Hi Knoby,

I'm glad someone has put a stem plant in this tug at last- if theres a model tug out there that suits a plume from it's stack it's that one.

Think your on the right track with the twin side tanks- i'm interested in your boiler control- what are you going to use?

Greg
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knoby

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 09:37:44 am »

i have a cheddar automatic boiler control unit that i intend to use. i saw this unit operating for hours at a trade stand years ago & bought it. my main concern is that since then its been in a box in the shed, so i hope it still functions. My other concern is that the boiler water level sensor was know to suffer inaccuracies  caused by the sight glass bubbling & also heat from the burner can cause it problems too.

cheers Glenn
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Proteus

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 10:28:09 am »

i have a cheddar automatic boiler control unit that i intend to use. i saw this unit operating for hours at a trade stand years ago & bought it. my main concern is that since then its been in a box in the shed, so i hope it still functions. My other concern is that the boiler water level sensor was know to suffer inaccuracies caused by the sight glass bubbling & also heat from the burner can cause it problems too.

cheers Glenn

Yes they do and you have one of the older boilers, pre ceramic  burner and the bottom take of is very close to the burner, on the newer Proteus boiler they moved the water gauge to the other end away from the burner and the extra heat.
the gas reg side of it works well and saves water and gas so you will get good run times anyway, you may get away with insulating the gauge which is a good idea anyway.
the unit has a water gauge for the water tanks,  that can eather put a light on or a buzzer, this could be used in the boiler and operate the pump via an extra channel, there is a water gauge post in the steam section about this type of sensor

Proteus
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 12:46:31 pm »

I've got a gas control valve in the Ben Ain and it works extreemly well and saves a lot of gas.  I've also got a complete ABC with, as Proteus says, the feed tank level probe but I have heard that the gauge glass sensor can be unreliable.  I'm worried that this could actually make the whole thing unreliable and a bit of a pain so if anyone out there has overcome these challenges with the level probe we'd love to hear about it.
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knoby

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 08:52:10 pm »

Further progress has been slow due to the good weather &  bank holiday, the carp fishing had take priority. The next job was to make the pipework up using 5/32 copper pipe. templates were made from 2.5mm copper wire to obtain the shapes, before cutting & bending. K&S bending springs & miniature  cutter were used to make the pipes up, always bending the pipes around some kind of former ( a broomstick for the larger radius & a drum stick for the smaller).then the union nuts were placed on the pipe before the nipples were silver soldered on.Because life is never simple, the boiler fitting are 1/4 x 40 tpi & all the cheddar fittings are 1/4 x 32 tpi threads, so care was needed getting the right nuts at the right ends.

Next i fitted the water & gas control valves & their control servos & spent time ensuring the control rods were of the correct length. Time spent here would hopefully pay off when it comes to running the steam plant.
An old boiler sight glass was fitted in the return line between the water control valve & the water tank so it will be possible to see that the pump is circulating the water.The only pipe work left to complete is the gas tank to gas control valve.This has been left because I wish to copy Bunkerbarge's idea of filling the tank & using an out side gas supply to steam up the boiler & i have yet to finalise the exact way i will do this. Also I have run out of 1/8 pipe nipples

The tops of the side tanks were glued into place using copious amounts of mastic (stikoflex from work), & once dry they were tested for watertightness.

The old servo mounting plate was modified to accept the radio gear & the automatic boiler control unit. This plate is mounted high in the rear of the hull & hopefully will ensure against damage from any ingress of water.A new front was added to the plate to take the switches for the receiver, automatic boiler control, fans & the lights. Everything, accept the boiler control, will be power from a 12volt 4.5ah sla mounted in the bows.The receiver will be powered via a homemade bec circuit, & the boiler control will be powered from a battery pack mounted in one of the side panels. The engine requires 2 servos, 1 for fwd/rev  & 1 for throttle;. the fwd /rev servo is mounted in the side panel. There is some concern that the slight oscillation of the fwd/rev lever on the engine, that occurs when its running, could cause damage to this servo, but there was not enough room to allow the use of a servo saver ( as used in rc cars), so this set up may require some alteration after testing.

At some point a way to transfer the power from the hull to the superstructure electrics needs to be decided. theres always the good old fashion plug & socket route but I favour some sort of contact system so the superstructure can be lifted off without fuss. I would appreciate any views from others on ways to achieve this.

This weeks aim is to get the inside of the hull rubbed down, primed & painted, swmbo permitting.

Cheers Glenn.










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Bunkerbarge

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 09:18:13 pm »

Glenn, as regards electrics have a look at the Ben Ain build thread again, the last entry. 

I've just done exactly what you are after with a plug and socket set up so I simply drop the accomodation block on and the circuit is made.
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knoby

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 09:42:37 pm »

Thanks bunkerbarge, i was worried that a small plug & socket wouldn't be man enough to cope with constant removal & refitting, but i must admit that looks like a super unit. where did u get it?
My initial thoughts were to produce something along the lines of the spring loaded contacts you get such as in car tailgates, but on a smaller scale. but i haven't spent much time thinking about it really. i got enough on my plate for the moment  ;)
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Proteus

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 10:05:41 pm »

I am not a fan of on board refilling because as you will know the gas is heaver than air and will stay in the bottom of the boat, so any gas that is spilt will be in the bilges with your open flame type burner it will ignite if you try to fill a tank while the burner is running or hot , I have only seen one near miss and that was fortunately a very small open boat and it ignited as he put the filler on , he will never do that again, so unless you can guarantee there will be no gas escape at all don't do it. Just use a reasonable size tank and fill it out of the boat , thats why they come with nurled nuts at one end

Proteus
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knoby

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 10:27:48 pm »

I agree totally with you proteus. i have been giving this aspect of the build quite a lot of thought, which is why i haven't finalised my gas pipe arrangement. experience has taught me that no matter how well I have planned steam plants before, they never quite work how you expect & alterations or improvements need to be made once the model is up & running.With this in mind I think I am going to fit the tank as normal so it can be removed for filling. Once i have Been running the model for a while, i will be in a better position to evaluate the pros & cons of on board refilling & using a separate gas supply for firing up. After all the hours of work that have gone in to this model the last thing i want to do is fill the hull with gas & light it !!!! after all i have little enough hair as it is  {-)

Thank for your thoughts
Glenn
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Proteus

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 10:41:42 pm »

also if you need small servo saver that is very compact look at these links you can get them for most servos . I use one on my rudders when I can in case it gets knocked you dont damage anything or hit something

http://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=KP131/745.0

http://demonpowerproducts.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=442


Proteus
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2009, 12:34:30 am »

If you use the Ronson type of filing vales I wholeheartedly agree, you have to fill them outside.  I use a steam valve for filling and another steam valve for venting, which vents outside the hull, so filling is quick and easy with minimal chance of leakage into the hull.  No more than any normal plant in operation anyway, whether you filled it outside or inside.  Care and attention with all fittings to ensure a gas tight system is as important for both methods of filling and I don't think my filling method introduces any additional risk.

An added precaution is, of course, I don't fill it with the burner on anyway, that is asking for it!!
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gondolier88

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2009, 06:47:33 pm »

Hi,

Another approach used in full size practice is to make a gastight compartment in the hull- up to the decks- put a lid with discreet vent on top- a deck hatch or whatever. Make the bottom of the compartment level with the waterline and put a skin fitting through the hull- this way any excess gas, which as Proteus correctly says, is heavier than air- seeps out to water level and dissipates to atmosphere- to keep the compartment gastight use a bulkhead fitting to the pipework to the burner.

Greg
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tugnut

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 07:42:40 pm »

Hi knoby ihave just seen this looks very interesting O0.

Did the tug come from folkstone,I was the origanal builder.

Regards John b.                 keep pict comming :-))
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knoby

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2009, 09:37:17 pm »

Firstly, thank you for your comments on the build so far. slow but steady progress has been made since last month, but the hot weather hasn't helped much with my energy levels.
After playing around with the battery position , the idea of using a 12v sla was abandoned due to the tight fit & some packs of 10 AA nimh 2600mah cells were acquired. these are considerably easier to fit & remove especially when the boiler is hot. A battery pack mounting plate was made up using 2mm plastic card & glued into position. The inside of the hull has been rubbed down, primed & painted using 2 pack black, which was matted down 50%. The hull was then set aside for a week to allow things to harden fully.

The old boiler ( the 1 for the boat, not swmbo !!!) was looking a but sorry for its self, although previous inspection & pressure testing had shown it to be in good condition. A new  piece of copper pipe was silver soldered on to the boiler to allow the fitting of the flue. this was actually a 22 mm straight pipe coupling suitable altered, & the whole boiler was placed in the pickle solution (citric acid & water from the chemists), that had been made up  for cleaning the pipe work, for a few days to clean everything up. Then the boiler was steam cleaned, rubbed down with fine paper & painted with heat resistant matt black, prior to lagging. The original plan was to cover the boiler in walnut strips, but there was a bundle of suitably sized spruce just sitting there , so i tried this to see what it looked like. maybe with some stain it will look OK , but I'm not convinced.

Many an hour was passed sitting in front of the TV filling, sanding & polishing the old & new steam fittings, along with the pipe work.at this point it was decided to paint the fittings in the same colour as the engine to try to pull everything together colour wise. All parts were  then fitted in to the hull to check fit & finalise what to do with the gas tank.


After much thought, a brass plate was made up to mount the gas tank on, this sits above the condenser ( i keep referring to it as a condenser, but in reality its just an oil & water trap to try to clean the steam before its ejected out of the stack) allowing a 3mm gap between the condenser & the plate. The hope is this will transfer sufficient heat to the tank to combat any cooling effects the gas expansion has on it. theres sufficient clearance to put insulation material between the 2  if too much heat transfered, or if it proves in effective, some shims can be inserted to allow full contact between the surfaces. Altough I believe theres an MPBA ruling that doesn't allow direct heating of gas tanks, so its down to trial & error to see whats best. The mounting plate will facilitate easy removal of the gas tank for filling, so for now will avoid on board refilling, but may opt for this at a later date.Unfortunately the gas pipe knurled nut is a 1/4 x 32 tpi thread & the gas tank is a 1/4 x 40 tpi thread, so the gas tank still isn't connected. Ideally a knurlled nut of 1/4 x 40 would be the easiest way out but i haven't found anyone selling them so i need to get 1 manufactured for me.

The only other engineering part left is the stack, this needs to be bent to fit the superstructure. The superstructure needs modifying first to allow the boiler flue to pass in to the funnel, so its time to start cutting holes in the model, & i have been dreading this part most of all !!!. While on the subject of the superstructure. none of the cowl vents are hollow & none of the windows & vents are open either, so there plenty of cutting about to be done, but thats getting left for a while or at least until I work up enough courage to start it.

Next to be done is the wiring. Main power is the afore mentioned 12v pack, this will drive everything except the boiler control unit, which will have its own power supply for safety, hopefully if the main power pack ever goes flat the boiler should be OK. All the lighting is 12v, so that not a problem, there will be at least 2 x 12v fans sucking air in to the hull, & the receiver will run off a home made BEC connected to the main batteries. A suitable plug & socket has been scrounged, which will transfer the power to the superstructure ala Bunkerbarges Ben Ain  build ( thanks again Bunkerbarge).
Then the lead ballast has to be moulded & fitted. One useful point about having previously run the boats on electric power is that the all up weight & the centre of gravity are known, the dis advantage of going steam powered is 2 huge sla batteries have been removed, so they need replacing with lead ballast permanently fitted to the hull, making it heavy for transportation.The lead will be cast to the required shape using plugs made by pouring plaster of paris in to the bottom of the hull, a method i have used successfully on other builds.so a fully explanation & pics will follow soon ( i hope).



Cheers Glenn
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derekwarner

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2009, 07:48:55 am »

Glenn....all looks nice & shiny...... :-))...but two points

1) if you are not happy with the spruce...try on a sample piece .....a polishing with tan shoe polish........the real waxy one ... not that liquid muck...you willl be supprised at the change  O0
2) if you relag the HP steam tubes.......just use cotton string & finally coat with liquid paper correction fluid  %% %% - Derek
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Bernhard

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2009, 04:06:48 pm »

Hi...oh yes look so fine,,,,,,if,,,you ever get problems with the waterpump,,,,let it lay down... it will work a lot better

Regards Bernhard
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knoby

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2009, 06:31:52 pm »

thanks Derick & Bernhard.
I have already tried a few different stains on the off cuts, but hadn't thought of boot polish. The hp steam pipes will get lagged as soon as i find some suitable string, & fortunately the office stationary cupboard has several bottles of tip-ex, one of which will get liberated shortly {-)

The water pump inlet is below the top level of the water tank & it is hoped this will prime the pump OK, but i will bear in mind your tip Bernhard

One mistake i have noticed today is the throttle servo is quiet a way off the centre line of the throttle lever on the engine, so this may require a rethink. a shame because it looked so neat too  :((

Thanks again for your useful input guys

Cheers Glenn
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Solitary Sailor

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2009, 02:21:22 am »

Hi Glenn

She's looking very good.

I'm thinking of using an Empire tug for my little 'Puffin', so we will have a matched pair ... well, almost. Shame we wont be able steam up the same stretch of water. The dimensions for your boiler are similar to the Maccsteam boiler I plan on getting, although yours is a little longer. I look forward to seeing yours on the water. It will be interesting to compare performance, though I suspect you will get a slight advantage over my little twin oscillator.  ;)

I shall definitely return here to get some tips when I start mine  ;) :-)) :-))
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Bernhard

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2009, 08:28:34 am »

hi great work you have be doing...to lag the pipe...what is real good,,,is the one you use inside ,when you doing candellight...you can get very long,and nice white color
it have the right size to.......

Regards Bernhard

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Bernhard

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2009, 09:13:26 am »

photo
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knoby

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2009, 07:32:08 pm »

Thank you for your kind comments guys.
I didn't actually build this model, Tugnut  made it, & a superb job he made of it too, Hes very helpful, I'm sure if u pm him Solitary, he would give you some pointers.

I like your idea of using candle wick Bernhard, but typically I had just finished the pipe lagging before i read your post  :((

Progress has been slow lately due to busy work commitments, but i have been doing little bits whenever i had the energy & time. Main problem this week is I dropped the engine & bent something, however 3 hours after asking for some help on mayhem I had received several offers to look into it for me. I never cease to be amazed by the helpfulness of the members here!!!

My next job is to start cutting holes in my lovely superstructure to allow air in & heat out. this is the bit I have been dreading. Hopefully this will involve much less swearing that was heard when i dropped the Gemini

thanks for your intrest
Cheers Glenn
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tugnut

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2009, 04:35:09 pm »

Hi Glenn that is looking good, you are braver than me i only use electric in my models.
Keep pictures comming  :-))

 Regard John B
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knoby

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Re: empire tug steam conversion
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2009, 06:37:38 pm »

Again thank you for your kind comments & suggestions guys. Work on the conversion has been slow due to a family bout of the dreaded swine flu, not pleasent but thank goodness everyones OK now.

Latest work was to make pattens for the lead ballast. 4 separate pieces of lead are required to allow for the mounting plate bearers. Temporary bulkheads were made up from card & then baking foil was tapped into position over these & the  hull bottom. A sloppy mix of plaster of Paris was then poured in to each section to a depth slightly higher than required.  the extra depth will allow the moulds to be made deeper than required to stop the molten lead overflowing.Once hard the pieces were carefully removed & set aside to completely dry.

The boiler is now finished. I decided to stain the spuce cladding with walnut, & finished with 3 coats of satin varnish, I don't really like it if I'm honest, but it will do for now. The boiler fittings were added using fiber washers & PTFE tape (plumbers tape for everything?)  to ensure a steam tight fit. The flue was bent to the required shape & now fits nicely into the funnel.the final pieces of pipe work were fabricated, one for the gas tank to gas valve, & one for the steam exhaust, which runs up through the flue.

The electrics were tackled next. I'm lucky with this part as i enjoy playing with electronics & electrical systems, although my enthusiasm tends to lend to me over complicating things. That said, this one is straight forward enough. Main power if fed from the fore mounted battery, under the deck, to the radio tray at the stern. where the power wires enter a terminal block. From the other side of the terminal block power is fed to 4 of the 5 switches required to operate the systems, 2 switches work the lights, 1 switch works the fans that will be mounted in the superstructure & 1 switch feeds power to the receiver via a home made BEC circuit. The final switch is for the automatic boiler control, which will be fed from a separate battery pack.The six wires to the superstructure go via a plug & socket, which is fixed in place so as it plugs in when the superstructure  is fitted. Extension leads were made up  to allow the gas & water valve servos to be connected to the boiler control box, these were made from plug & socket sets & 3 core cable purchased from Model Power.

So far I have chickened out of altering the superstructure, except for enlarging the hole under The funnel, but i cant avoid it for much longer.

Thats all I have done, but its getting there slowly

Cheers Glenn
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