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[bikemec]

I tend to go by "Ti's better to ask forgiveness than permission" so unless there are big signs saying otherwise keep sailing

[mick]

I use a hidden section of a little used canal, and no one knows....

[bugs]

A long time ago when I sailed model yachts with a club my membership covered insurance. The quizzical look on my face (me naively thinking I was simply playing with a toy) was met with explanations along the lines of how easy it would be to poke someone's eye out with the mast or hurt a goose  - both of which I would be grateful for insurance. I paid the insurance but found myself wondering whether I should have extended my cover to include the risk of poking a passer-bys eye out while giving directions and/or hurting a goose with an overly large piece of bread? I concluded that the pivotal point around which I might be sued is whether I was deriving fun from the activity which caused another damage. I think the level of insurance required is directly proportional to the level of fun you are having.

[dodgy geezer]

I concluded that the pivotal point around which I might be sued is whether I was deriving fun from the activity which caused another damage. I think the level of insurance required is directly proportional to the level of fun you are having.

No. You are living in a capitalist economy. The level of insurance required is directly proportional to the amount of money someone thinks you will be prepared and able to pay.

Radio Control has traditionally been an expensive operation - so brokers reckoned that if you were willing to spend £1000 (equivalent prices) or more on a radio, then there was something there for them...

Incidentally, do anglers or golfers routinely buy insurance before taking their long pokey sticks out for an airing? I suspect that clubs offer insurance as a standard service because brokers target them, but I can't remember my kids worrying about insurance when they run off for an hour on the local council-run links... 

[Circlip]

But if you have a maggot drowning license don't the local council get a rake orft??  If there's two or more on the pondside, don't that count as obstruction?? and don't forget, a toy boat driver is a far softer target to the "Parkies" than a bunch of hoodies.   

  Regards  Ian.

[dougal99]

Insurance tends to be something you don't think about until you need it.

[tigertiger]

A view of the insurance industry by someone who is not an expert
ME!

I think the need for insurance for model boats is driven by the MPBA. If they are overseeing clubs they have a responsibility for members actions. And a desire to avoid getting dragged into in any civil case. If members are insured the insurance companies deal with that hastle/time, as I doubt the MPBA is geared up for that.

As an individual, (not a member of an MPBA affiated club) you can arrange additional cover for most things on your home contents insurance - usually at no extra cost. The only way that MPBA can 'police' the matter to insist on a specific use insurance. You quote a valid policy number, and MPBA is covered. They could not check on individuals home contents.

You balance the risk of being sued against the cost. For example I ride pushbikes without any insurance cover. Even ambulance chasers will give up puruing you quickly if you have no insurance. They are balancing the likelihood of getting a settlment worth while pursuing.

As for costs. The biggest cost is the administration of a specialist (low numbers of takers) policy in a non-competitve sector. In other words you are probably paying for pencil pushing. For those of us who had an endowmwnet policy on the house, for the first three years of paying, most of the money is used to pay sales commissions and admin to set up the policy, not adding to the equity in your policy.

[Wasyl]

What about walking on the grass and standing around in groups of two or more, not to mention feeding the ducks with bread........

There was a case in England a month ago whereby a woman who was at a local pond,with her 4 yearold son, who was feeding ducks with bread,..she received an on the spot fine,for littering,..beaurocracy gone mad,
Wullie

[dodgy geezer]

You balance the risk of being sued against the cost. For example I ride pushbikes without any insurance cover. Even ambulance chasers will give up pursuing you quickly if you have no insurance. They are balancing the likelihood of getting a settlment worth while pursuing.

Probably the most sucinct statement of the issue. If you have insurance, modern 'ambulance-chasing' solicitors are much more likely to get involved, because they can negotiate a lucrative settlement with your insurers. We have all seen the adverts - a son-in-law of mine works for such a solicitors firm, and he has told me in the past that the first question asked is 'Does the other party have insurance?'.

If not, they are unlikely to proceed with the case, because they are not in the business of taking things to a costly court case. They are in the business of negotiating settlements for a fat fee by sending a few letters out.

[Wasyl]

Regarding Insurance,for models
I have insurance on all my models,for a value up to £10,000 i pay £90 per year,this covers the models against Theft,from my garage,Accidental damage,,whilst carrying them to,..the pond,show,or exhibition,a small price to pay when some models can be worth £1000,s,

Wullie

[Colin Bishop]

I think the need for insurance for model boats is driven by the MPBA. If they are overseeing clubs they have a responsibility for members actions. And a desire to avoid getting dragged into in any civil case. If members are insured the insurance companies deal with that hastle/time, as I doubt the MPBA is geared up for that.

I don't think that statement holds water TT! The MPBA is nothing to do with whether you need insurance for your boating activities or not.

You can see the basis of the MPBA Insurance here: http://www.mpba.org.uk/mpba/mpba_insurance.htm It is basically designed to cover individual members although it does also cover the officers of the Association too. You will find that many clubs will have their own insurance whether they are affiliated to the MPBA or not. Anyone running an event where the public are present should have public liability insurance and organisations owning the facilities such as local councils will frequently insist upon it. There is nothing new about this, my old club used to hire the Surbiton Lagoon Lido back in the 70s and we always took out PLI for our events that were open to the public. If you are just having a sail around on a Sunday morning at your local water by yourself then it's personal liability insurance you may need which you might have on your household cover if you are not alternatively covered by your club insurance or the MPBA policy.

The benefit of MPBA insurance is that you are covered for MPBA sponsored, club and personal boating activities wherever you go. Club insurance may be confined to the local water or have other limitations.

Like most insurance of this type, MPBA cover does not extend to damage caused by boats colliding on the water.

Colin

[malcolmfrary]

There was a case in England a month ago whereby a woman who was at a local pond,with her 4 yearold son, who was feeding ducks with bread,..she received an on the spot fine,for littering,..beaurocracy gone mad,
Wullie

Finest idea ever, including boneless saussages and sliced bread. 
Before the local council put up signs discouraging the practice, in a lake just one mile round, we had 350+ geese and 125+ swans.  Thats a heck of a lot of bird droppings on the paths around the lake, and in the lake, fertilising the weed.  Now we have far fewer of the winged vermin, it is possible to walk the paths without planning ahead where your feet are going, and we haven't had a weed problem for the last few seasons.
A pity the on the spot fine didn't include a bit of community service, like removing the resulting droppings.

[Wasyl]

Perhaps you could get on to your local council,and get them to put up notices around the centre of Blackpool warning the inhabitants both local and holidaying,that feeding the 4 legged vermin is also prohibited,

Wullie 

[tobyker]

why do we need CRB checks - because the police lost the file on Huntley.
why can't we hold firearms legally - because the police let the loony Hamilton have a firearms licence.
when the police kill scotsmen carrying chair legs, or foreign electricians, is anyone at fault?
I actually reckon we do need a police force, but am not convinced that they can do no wrong.

[Bryan Young]

Finest idea ever, including boneless saussages and sliced bread. 
Before the local council put up signs discouraging the practice, in a lake just one mile round, we had 350+ geese and 125+ swans.  Thats a heck of a lot of bird droppings on the paths around the lake, and in the lake, fertilising the weed.  Now we have far fewer of the winged vermin, it is possible to walk the paths without planning ahead where your feet are going, and we haven't had a weed problem for the last few seasons.
A pity the on the spot fine didn't include a bit of community service, like removing the resulting droppings.

Concur.
In "days of yore" (ie a couple of years ago), before that "Warburtons" advert, kids used to just chuck "bits" of bread, now it's all whole slices. Ducks don't eat'em and so the slices sink.....and that is partly the reason that Tynemouth Lake was more like a cricket field than a Lake during last summer....and, as was said earlier, swans "droppings" are really more of a large "splat" than droppings. In this area we have more than enough water habitats for wildlife, but of course the birds will gravitate to easy-pickings. But just you try to reason with the mothers (or worse, grandads) and very large fleas suddenly appear in the lug-hole. BY.

[Tersane]

Reading all these replies, I can safely say that the world is full of lunatics! Most of them model boating folk! Thank God for that! I am not alone!! Thanks for all of your suggestions?

[malcolmfrary]

Bryan, the problem was not the odd person with a spare crust or two, breaking it up and tossing to the birds, it was the demented berks who would turn up with three carrier bags full of loaves in each.  After a half dozen braces of these, none of the wildfowl had room for any more, the bread was cast on the grass, and became food for the real rats.  Of course, the swans and geese told all their mates and relatives, and so their numbers spiralled upward.  So the birdfeeders felt obliged to bring yet more bread. All this for supposedly migratory birds.  I saw a mention of a recent report that stated that migratory patterns were being significantly changed by unnatural large scale feeding feeding.
As to the Blackpool litter louts, I first heard that term in the '60's, and sweet nothing has been done in this country to end it, apart from passing laws that are so weakly enforced that when someone does actually get caught out, it becomes newsworthy.  It seems that much of our population are natural slobs, and have been for several generations.

[Colin Bishop]

I've read that  bread is not a good source of food for birds as it gives a lot of bulk for very little nutritional value.

Minced squirrels are better.

Colin

[john j]

We only sail electric scale and yachts but have third party insurance.

You will have to excuse my ignorance here guys, but why would you need third party insurance for running model boats, what kind of incident would warrent a claim ?

Again, sorry for my ignorance 

                                          john

[Colin Bishop]

Well, your boat might be on a stand at the pondside. Along comes little Johnny and bends over for a closer look - and pokes his eye out on the mast, cue insurance claim from Mum and Dad.

Alternatively, you are running your fast multi boat on the lake. there is a glitch with the R/C and you lose control. the boat hits the bank at speed and then a member of the public. OK, not all that likely but if it did happen you could be vulnerable to a claim.

You are running a steam boat, by mischance there is a problem on the bank and the boiler goes bang injuring an onlooker.

You are fast charging your batteries. Somebody leans over to look at the model just when the batteries go bang. Again, not likely but it does happen.

If you have a successful claim against you and you don't have insurance then it could ruin you. OK, the chances of it happening are not high, but they are not altogether impossible.

You simply have to weigh up the risk and decide it it's worth insuring against.

Remember, these days it's never the affected party's fault if they get injured - it's always somebody elses's - you for instance!

Your decision.

Colin

[andygh]

I think we've been here before

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10092.msg94270#msg94270

and I still think it's a load of hooey 

[Colin Bishop]

and I still think it's a load of hooey 

And if you'd talked to the MPBA's insurance people you might think differently.

Colin

[dodgy geezer]

And if you'd talked to the MPBA's insurance people you might think differently.

Colin

And if I talked to the double glazing salesman down the road I might think I needed all my windows renewing...

[The long Build]

You are fast charging your batteries. Somebody leans over to look at the model just when the batteries go bang. Again, not likely but it does happen.

I happen to know that something similar to this has happened , Twice, The Submarine was taken back in a small plastic bag..  Luckily nobody was injured on these 2 occasions but....

[cadman17_36]

Well as for someone who lives in the US (the home of stupid law suites) I say it is good to be insured but not to much. Case in point McDonald's was sued for having their coffee 2 degrees to hot by some idiot that put it between her legs in the car and, won the case. We live in a world were we have to tell ppl not to use electric hair driers in the shower and to not put your hand into a meat grinder while it is running. I call it thinning of the herd but hey we all need a hobby