Topic: Boiler feedwater from the lake? (Read 10998 times)

kno3 · « **on:** December 29, 2009, 01:28:38 pm »

Hello,

I have read that some people who have steam plants fitted with boiler feed pumps use lake water to replenish the boilers. Now this would certainly save space in a small boat, since you don't need an extra water tank, but I am concerned about the effect of lake water on the boiler. Who has first hand experience with such a set-up and can share their experience?

Thanks!

HS93 (RIP) · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2009, 01:46:15 pm »

saw a chap make a mess of a boiler once trying that it smelt horrid a boiler run dry. the filtering alone would prob take a lot off space as the smallest speck of Cr*p will stop the pump and that is without the damage due to pollution etc to the inside of the boiler, let us know how you get on.

peter

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2009, 02:39:04 pm »

I agree with Peter, no matter how much filtering the water goes through it will still contain soluables which will remain in the boiler after the water has been evaporated off.

I have heard of modellers using pond water and, of course, the very early steamers used sea water but they had to be scraped out every couple of days, so I would strongly advise against using pond water.

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2009, 02:42:15 pm »

I have been using pond water in several boats of my boats boilers for many years and never had any problems, I am also still using my Grandfathers steam plantm which has been in regular use since 1946 ! and again have had no problems, although these days I tend to test the boiler to twice working pressure (well it is 54 years old) which is 240 psi, and its still going strong.

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2009, 03:23:58 pm »

Maybe it's all to do with the quality of the pond in question?

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2009, 04:21:53 pm »

I think you are right there BB, my boats are mainly only ever used on 2 ponds, which are both cleaned regularly,(a least the council gets something right) and have nice clean water. There are ponds I would never consider pumping into my boiler (Luton being one---sorry chaps) and even wicksteed I was using a boat with on board water tanks.
I think its getting worse these days as lots of councils are pumping stuff into ponds / lakes to kill weeds / grow weeds / stop the spread of strange waterborne diseases.

Bernhard · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2009, 04:48:25 pm »

Hi-
i know Malcolm have don that fore 25 years i think ,with no problem,,,,i have made it in my River queen,,bot havent try it on the lake............photo my launch
and Malcolm system.......

Bernhard

Malcolm sai
There is no water tank - water is drawn from the pond, river, lake etc. Pure water is no good as it's electrical resistance is too high, and the level control system can't distinguish between steam and the water
Sorry - forgot that bit. There is no filter - as I said, I've been running this boat for around 25 years, and during that time I've never had any problems due to dirty water. If a leaf or somthing of that sort got over the intake, it would obviously stop working, but with the intake well under the hull, this hasn't been a problem.
As the pump is at about at water line level there has been no problem with picking the water up. When I start, this is usually done out of the water, once running, it is put in the water, and I feel underneath to see how much suction there is. You should certainly be able to feel if the pump is working. Sometimes, one of the non-return balls sticks. If you feel nothing, it will be on the suction side, but if you feel a suck and blow it is the delivery ball that is not working. Sometimes a tap on the pump will cure things. If that fails I loosen the banjo coupling on top of the pump - this also keeps the ball in place and allows the pump to work against no load which usually frees the ball.
Thought I had a photo of the pump etc, but find I havn't. Will see if I can get a good shot of the system tomorrow.
Cheers Malcolm

flashtwo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2009, 05:39:39 pm »

Hi,

I've been running my flash steam boat all summer at many locations and drawing all its water from the lake/pond.

The water is sucked by the pumps via a "settling" tank which contains a piece of garden capillary matting to slow the flow down to allow particulates to fall out of the flow.

Even now there is very little debris in the bottom of the settling tank.

Being a flash monotube boiler there is little chance of sediment building up in the boiler, since, being a single tube, it is continuously flushed through.

Ian.

gondolier88 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2009, 07:01:13 pm »

First- SY Gondola has used lake water for her boiler feed with only a line strainer for the past 30 years with no detriment at all to the boiler.

However a rainwater fed, slate filtered soft mineral water is a lot different to a brackish non-flowing algae abundant boating pond water!!!

The last plant i built onto the cheddar plant a filter box that could use filter paper for coffee machines before the pump, however this is also on Windermere so is not bad water quality to start with!

Basically use your common sense- if the water quality is questionable then a filter is a necessity, and also, something I thought about- a lot of water gauge glasses have a bottom threaded conection that is blanked off- this could be used as a bush for a blowdown valve which then would exit outside the hull- this would get rid of any TDS's that accumulate at the bottom of the boiler.

Greg

andywright · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2009, 07:01:45 pm »

Quote from: Bernhard on December 29, 2009, 04:48:25 pm

Hi-
i know Malcolm have don that fore 25 years i think ,with no problem,,,,i have made it in my River queen,,bot havent try it on the lake............photo my launch
and Malcolm system.......

Bernhard

Malcolm sai
There is no water tank - water is drawn from the pond, river, lake etc. Pure water is no good as it's electrical resistance is too high, and the level control system can't distinguish between steam and the water
Sorry - forgot that bit. There is no filter - as I said, I've been running this boat for around 25 years, and during that time I've never had any problems due to dirty water. If a leaf or somthing of that sort got over the intake, it would obviously stop working, but with the intake well under the hull, this hasn't been a problem.
As the pump is at about at water line level there has been no problem with picking the water up. When I start, this is usually done out of the water, once running, it is put in the water, and I feel underneath to see how much suction there is. You should certainly be able to feel if the pump is working. Sometimes, one of the non-return balls sticks. If you feel nothing, it will be on the suction side, but if you feel a suck and blow it is the delivery ball that is not working. Sometimes a tap on the pump will cure things. If that fails I loosen the banjo coupling on top of the pump - this also keeps the ball in place and allows the pump to work against no load which usually frees the ball.
Thought I had a photo of the pump etc, but find I havn't. Will see if I can get a good shot of the system tomorrow.
Cheers Malcolm

any one know where to get these pipe fittings in the photo, bought a lubricator with 3/16 tapered thread and I need to fit it into a 'T' on the steam line. There were no fittings supplied , onlt the valve.

Bernhard · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2009, 07:44:10 pm »

http://stores.ebay.com/thesteamchest

kno3 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:03:39 pm »

Thanks all for the comments. I really wanted to hear from people who tried it, less from people who think it not possible

If I go this route I will probably use a filter. I have seen some really small fuel filters, used in models with internal combustion engines. Would they work for filtering water too?

gondolier88 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:10:44 pm »

Can't see why not- they should be filtering the same particle sizes and letting a decent flow through.

Greg

Underpressure · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:27:15 pm »

Quote from: gondolier88 on December 29, 2009, 10:10:44 pm

Can't see why not- they should be filtering the same particle sizes and letting a decent flow through.

Greg

That's a really good idea. If you get one designed for 1/8th scale on or off road cars it will easily handle sufficient flow rates, as 1/8th I/C cars drink fuel at a tremendous rate. Actually, thinking about it, look at I/C model helicopters too, probably the same filters, but again high fuel consumption machines.

For my own part I have never considered using lake water, as half the time I sail on brackish water.

Neil

Bernhard · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:59:15 pm »

hi........yes thats is a good ide ...with the RC filter,,,maby something like this small fuel filter
or make one...i think i will try that,,,just some off this ?photo ?....and come it inside a plastic..rubber tube,,,,,,,,

kno3 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2009, 11:11:40 pm »

Yep that's the kind of filter I meant.

HS93 (RIP) · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2009, 11:16:22 pm »

you would probably be better off with a full size car filter the disposable type they are not that big but a much better filter and the flow rate will not be a problem, although Helli boys do have some nice state of the art ones but expensive
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INLINE-FUEL-FILTER-NOS-UNIVERSAL-FITTING-FORD-BMC_W0QQitemZ400094347407QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5d277b408f

http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/mini-fuel-filter-car-moto-dirt-bike-lawnmower-quad-000110-002.html

and replacment elements could be used on thee own @.99p

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BIODIESEL-INLINE-FUEL-FILTER-UNIVERSAL-FIT-PACK-OF-4_W0QQitemZ120511751597QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1c0f0f65ad

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-Fuel-Filter-Honda-Moto-Guzzi-Suzuki-Kawasaki-Filters_W0QQitemZ320468515425QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item4a9d697a61

HS93 (RIP) · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2009, 12:01:05 am »

you could make some scale hoses just use fine mesh.

peter

Bernhard · « **Reply #18 on:** December 30, 2009, 06:42:53 am »

Hi-...Look Great,,, thats a real good ide,,,where to get that tube,,and eny more photos off the boat........

Bernhard

HS93 (RIP) · « **Reply #19 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:07:48 am »

Tube is a cheat it's a stainless steel spring with heat shrink, the springs come in 12" lengths from Polly eng

Peter

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2009, 10:37:24 am »

So was Cheddars recommendation NEVER to use tap water based on the concerns regarding the addition of chemicals by the water authority or were they suggesting that distilled was the only acceptable quality? It would have been interesting to hear thier thoughts on the use of raw pond or river water.

Underpressure · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2009, 11:27:27 am »

I don't actually ever recall being told anything specific by the people at the factory, but in conversation, possibly with Iain, it came out that boiled water was pretty good i.e. the water left in the kettle after you have made a cuppa. That's what I have been using since I began model steam boating.

Neil

HS93 (RIP) · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2009, 01:17:23 pm »

This is what Cheddar says in there instructions

Peter

gondolier88 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2009, 01:48:35 pm »

If Cheddar were the be-all and end-all why oh WHY were they advocating the use of de-IONISED water!!!!!!!!!

It should be de-MINERALISED water or distilled water as they call it- or rainwater- which is pondwater!!!

But never never never de-ionised water, ever!

Greg

Underpressure · « **Reply #24 on:** December 30, 2009, 05:19:40 pm »

The man who never made a mistake...never made anything.

And John sure did make a few.

Neil

News:

Author Topic: Boiler feedwater from the lake? (Read 10998 times)

kno3

Bunkerbarge

Bunkerbarge

Bernhard

Bernhard

kno3

Underpressure

Bernhard

kno3

Bernhard

Bunkerbarge

Underpressure

Underpressure