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Author Topic: shadow and brushless motors  (Read 4082 times)

elvis

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shadow and brushless motors
« on: January 10, 2010, 07:09:01 pm »

hi all
when the shadow gets here, going to use a brushless motor setup.
never used them before and just needed to know if there is anything special with these motors. size/power/nicads/radio.
any help would be great.
thanks
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Flying Sparks

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 08:01:03 pm »

Elvis

I put a 1660Kv 350W motor in my old Shadow like this one http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop&action=additem&item=301 It goes like a dingbat, way over powered but the motor  cheap at £19.99 and great fun  :}. I use a 60A ESC, bit OTT for this motor but it was also cheap at about £13.50 from Giant Cod. This is an aircraft controller with no reverse though. I've only tried it so far on 8 x 3300ma NiMi, I will also try 3 cell Lipo but I need to fit a smaller prop first. I only put this together to try out a brushless motor in a boat as the Shadow has been in my loft for many years after being IC powered and then underpowered by a Speed 600 brushed motor.

I think it would be better with a lower KV motor with about half the Watts as this hull realy can't handle the power. But it does go very fast for such a small motor

Good luck

Phil.
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Perkasaman2

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 05:39:03 pm »

Hi lads, can I ask how big the shadow hull is and is it a deep v huntsman type hull?  :-)
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 05:44:15 pm »


"The boat is  660   x  220mm   in  bright  orange" - very shallow Vee and very prone to being over powered... be warned!

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/My_models/02%20shadow.htm

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Perkasaman2

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 06:10:43 pm »

Many thanks Martin -  this little piggie might just fly away................  :}
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Bryan Young

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 06:56:41 pm »

OK, but not being really stupid here.....just an earnest seeker of knowledge.
I understand the principle and workings of a "normal" (brush) motor, but have no inkling of the pros and cons of any other type.
So I need educating. And I'm sure I'm not alone!
Therefore....educate me....please? BY.
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Perkasaman2

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 07:45:53 pm »

Hi Bryan, Our member 'andrewh' gave a superb tutorial on the theory and application of brushless motors - both types i.e. inrunner and outrunner and their characteristics , unfortunately my laptop demised a short while ago and I lost all relevant thread info/references which  I had saved. Andrew has demystified this subject however comparative data/info is patchy in selecting brushless replacements for popular brushed types (500/600/700/800 sizes). These motors are the future.........the airplane fraternity have them sussed but us boaters are a lot less scientific in our hobby You could find him on the members list and scroll his previous  posts which are listed there. These engines require special esc's but the market is geared to the fly boys and high rated esc's with reverse (marine) are few/pricey. Sorry I can't be specific but Andrew's posts are real 'nuggets' and worth tracing.  :-)
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Flying Sparks

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 10:25:19 pm »

Quote
I understand the principle and workings of a "normal" (brush) motor, but have no inkling of the pros and cons of any other type.

The main advantage of brushless motors is that they are much more efficient than brushed motors. Instead of a mechanical connection from the power source to the electromagnets the current on a brushless motor is switched using some clever electronics. The clever bits are in the speed controller hence they used to be much more expensive but that is not the case any more, you can buy brushless controllers for less than the cost of a brushed esc.

A brushless motor normally runs much cooler and is much smaller than a brushed motor for a given power output. In my earlier posting I mentioned that I fitted a brushless motor to my old SHG Shadow, the motor is physically about the same size a 380 motor but is capable of about 350 watts which is far more than a 540 motor would produce.

I have quite a lot of experience with brushless motors in aircraft but I've only just returned to boats. I'm working on my second boat now and that also has a (bigger) brushless motor. In aeroplanes power and weight are critical and using heavy old brushed motors power was marginal but brushless motors together with LiPo batteries have revolutionised electric flight. I'm now using some of my knowledge learned in aircraft on my boats. It's good fun.

Sorry I've rambled on a bit but I hope this helps.

Phil.
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des321

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 10:51:08 pm »

I just fitted my first brushless motor, to a hovercraft as it happens. I am not very technical. First thing that threw me was seeing three wires coming out of the motor and ESC. All the same colour! Turns out it doesn't matter how you connect them. If it runs in reverse you just switch any two wires. I then hit a significant hurdle with the throttle control. Being a forward only ESC as most brushless controllers are, it expected to use the full throw of the throttle control. Whereas us boaters using spring centering control stick would expect the top half to be forward and the bottom half reverse. I am using Futaba 2.4 radio gear. I eventually found that by selecting Helicopter mode I could pre-set the throttle at five levels. By setting the first three settings to zero I was able to make the spring centred Tx behave like a normal boat throttle.
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2010, 11:18:12 pm »

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Bryan Young

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 02:36:08 pm »

Thanks to all who replied. I now have a "sort of" idea what they are about. I've got one or two of these without knowing what they were...taken from some defunct CD players, printers and so on. After reading all the info that was posted I can see that I really have no use for them, so I'll just give them away. As most of my models are pretty heavy I think I'll stick with the "brushed" sort. But again, thank you. BY.
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 05:03:12 pm »


Just think of brushless motors as 3-phase motors, but a lot smaller and a LOT faster!
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Bryan Young

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2010, 06:34:13 pm »

Just think of brushless motors as 3-phase motors, but a lot smaller and a LOT faster!

Martin, I'm not into "speed", more like weight and reliability....and ESCs that can get a 100lb model to stop and go backwards. BY.
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Flying Sparks

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2010, 07:46:29 pm »


Bryan

A brushless motor does not have to be fast. They will do fast or slow, efficiently.

Phil.
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andygh

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Re: shadow and brushless motors
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2010, 08:38:56 pm »

Quote
I'm not into "speed", more like weight and reliability....and ESCs that can get a 100lb model to stop and go backwards.

A brushless motor & esc will probably get a 100lb model to FLY backwards  O0

More efficient and more power for their weight, I've been very impressed with mine so far
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