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[dodgy geezer]

It was a greed generated crisis where none was required.

Yes, you are right. About the only way we could have averted this crisis is if the customers (mainly the pension and the hedge funds in practice) had refused to invest in the banks which were, as you correctly point out, offering them high profits with an unquantifiable risk. Instead, they all pilled in. That should not have been considered reasonable.

Once the mistake was made, and money started to be lost, the banks and the investors believing in them should have been left to fail. That'sthe only way the lesson will be learned. If we spend our money saving them, we are ignoring the lesson, and setting ourselves up for the same thing to happen again 20 years down the line... 

[Roger in France]

Oh they knew what they were doing and they are still doing it.

As for taking action earlier, I did my little bit when enforcing the Consumer Credit Act, but when I shouted out about the obscene profits and the deceptive practises most folk took no notice because they were not feeling the squeeze, then. It was only the feckless and unsophisticated who were being offered reckless deals who were paying through the nose and they didn't know how to complain, or their life was already to much a struggle for survival to take on the big guns which the banks deployed.

I am not saying that all the borrowers were blameless nor am I saying that all bankers were and are dishonest. What I am saying is that the banks have claimed and been granted a privileged position and now they have been caught with their trousers down and must be subjected to firm control. Profits OK, obscene rewards are not.

An example from a part of the credit industry I knew well;

The managing director and his wife had a Porche each and there was another in the garage. He had a chauffeur driven limousine as well. He knew this was excessive because when the Chairman of the holding company visited the cars were parked elsewhere.
Each year he and all the directors and their spouses had an incentive holiday including outward bound to Acapulco on a liner with a clothing allowance and hairdressing appointments every day. A week in the resort and then fly home on Concorde. Meanwhile the staff were told, "The company has a debt problem, the customer must pay".

Roger in France

[dodgy geezer]

Oh they knew what they were doing and they are still doing it.

And they will continue to do it, for as long as we let them. This was the gist of my comment - that it is up to the customers to apply regulation.

..when I shouted out about the obscene profits and the deceptive practises most folk took no notice because they were not feeling the squeeze, then.

And this is why I was saying that blame should be apportioned more widely than just the bankers. If you let someone take you to the cleaners and do nothing about it, you encourage such practices. People should think more deeply about the principles of what is being done to them. I myself complain bitterly about Microsoft's practices, which are just as immoral as the banks', but few people listen because the issues are technical, and not impacting them at the moment...

What I am saying is that the banks...must be subjected to firm control. Profits OK, obscene rewards are not.

Agreed. But this is a non-trivial problem, unless you want to kill a golden-egg-laying goose. There was an Alex cartoon recently where Alex asked his junior analyst if these calls for banker's heads were justified. Looking at the posters of the protesters outside he asked "Do you think the bankers are going to burn?" And his analyst replied, "Yes - Berne, Geneva, Zurich, all these places look much more attractive now..."

[Nordsee]

We have that here in UK, the form is called a cheque

The difference is that if anyone books money off my account, and I mean anyone. I can claim it back upto 30 days later. Also we can get Statements from any Bank, any time, for free.

[Netleyned]

Dont forget to put 2010 on your cheques from tomorrow!


Yours Aye

Ned

[malcolmfrary]

And his analyst replied, "Yes - Berne, Geneva, Zurich, all these places look much more attractive now..."

And its quite possible that the HR people of the banks in Berne, Zurich, and Geneva, when our emigre bankers apply for jobs there, will probably say something like "And what did you do in your previous job?"  and the answer, if honest, would have to be "I took a perfectly good financial institution and helped to bring it to the brink of ruin by encouraging incompetent/dishonest (delete if/as required) policies while claiming huge bonuses.  I can do the same for you for the promise of even bigger bonuses."  If the Swiss want that kind of friend, they are welcome to them.

[Nordsee]

From the first of November this year this is not allowed. The EU has decreed that money transfers between accounts in the EU, including the UK, are to be free of commssion charges. There is supposed to be a Europe wide clearing system.

Barrie

Maybe in Theory, but when I had some money transferred on the 16th December from my Savings Account in the TSB in UK to my German Account  (Commerzbank) I was charged 20 pounds by TSB for conversion into Euros and a further 30 Euros by the Commerzbank for dealings outside the Eurozone. This transaction was by Telephone and used TAN and Pin etc.
 Also it is not only the very top managers that get extra Bonii, a friend of ours in UK is a Branch Manager for Barclays and she has got a free trip to Baltic for her and her husband, on a Cruise Ship, for 10 days. Why ? she did her job, no more, no less, so why a Junket? Pigs in the Trough I reckon. She herself says she has done nothing outstanding, and doesn't see why she has been "rewarded."

[Patrick Henry]

I was going to reply 'no, I wouldn't miss cheques'...then rapidly changed my mind as I wrote one out to pay my water bill. You can't post date a credit/debit card payment!!

Rich

[Patrick Henry]

Further to this post, I received a cheque in the post yesterday for services rendered on ebay, so off I  toddles to the local branch of my bank just down the road, about a hundred yards from my front door....only to find that said local branch of my bank has closed it's banking facilities and is now a estate agent.

I asked where  the nearest branch is..."oh, in town, sir (about five miles away) or you can use our online banking services".

'So tell me' I says, 'how the *&(*^%$  $%% do I pay in a cheque into my laptop????'...the assistant couldn't answer that and pretended to be very busy all of a sudden with her telephone.

No...I won't miss cheques.


Rich(not at this rate I won't be!)

[meechingman]

Ah, the first weeks of the school term, when all the parents of my music students pay their fees    - by cheque  . What they will do in future is not certain. The cheque system is convenient for us, but when the banks can't make enough money out of it, well you know what will happen. 

And, for my convenience, my branch opening hours have just been changed. Just 10 til 2 now. And two of the the big 4 have left town completely.

I had to laugh last week. One of their in house 'sales' people stopped me in the branch and asked if I'd like a new bank loan. As I was a 'valued customer' (they've had MY money for over 30 years!) I could have a preferential rate of just 8.1%. I asked her how I had a rate of just 5.1% on my current loan, taken out when the B of E base rate and LIBOR rate were much higher. Why didn't my special rate reflect that? She looked rather embarrassed  and had no answer, of course.

[malcolmfrary]

I read recently that Richard Branson is intending to move into banking.  He had been gathering senior staff no longer required by HBOS, RBS, & Bradford and Bingley..............what could possibly go wrong?  I mean, these are experienced people who will obviously have learnt from past mistakes and will provide the integrity and honesty and customer service that is so needed.  Obviously.