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[Bigdave]

I have a question for any Saito owners.
I have the smoking tank option on my Saito engine and boiler.
Does anyone know what type of oil to add.
The manual does not really say and I think just called it Smoke Oil.
Any suggestions?? Thanks, Dave.

[kno3]

I'd like to find out too.

[Canopus]

From my experiments with smoke generator (see working example on model warships underway - how too section) I believe the term smoke oil to be missuesd. Many years ago smoke generators used kerosene and parafin and oil and other horrid stuff, virtually all of which was flamable. Over recent years there has been the development of fog machines which use glycol plus a bit (i forget what) but this is non flamable and I suspect is what is meant by "smoke oil". This can be purchased from Maplins in the UK and does produce a thick smoke when heated/evaporated. This is what is used in virtually all commercial smoke units (other than the very recent evaporative water ones) and if added to a flow or air (small computer fan) produces a very large quantity of "smoke".

I would be interested to learn details of the physical structure of the Satio smoke generators but suspect its simply nothing more than a tank of "fog fluid" which is led into the funnel on a drip feed to be evaporated by the heat/exhause steam??

Hope this may help and/or provide some pointers.

Regards

Geoff

[nemesis]

Hallo, You can also get it from Disco equipment sellers. It is the "fog" that is used at Discos, You may find that the quantities are larger & the price cheaper, Nemesis

[benjaml1]

Didn't Hornby make an oil to put in the funnels of their model railway engines ? I think it had a little electric heater in there ...

[debssnal]

Hi ,here is how i make my smoke oil
4 parts johnson baby oil
1 part white spirit
hope this is of some help to you
kind regards
Alan

[derekwarner]

  ...for those wanting an authentic "Welsh coal burning" steam boiler smoke effect ....try

25% white oil [not white spirit]...but yes white oil for keeping bugs of green foilage
63.25 % of used diesel lube oil from an old banger
[63.25 - 25 = 11.75....Yes...must get the % correct]
11.75% of liquid cyanide of 1N [normality ]....which is a very very low concentration 

This fluid can be drip injected [by capiliary action] into the boiler @ 125 degrees C & the result is a very LARGE dark grey/blackish plume of smoke arising from the boiler 

Health warnings & disclaimer

1. Not recommended for children
2. Should only be used under parental supervision ...say 65 years of age + [this means a child of 65 years of age when accompanied by their respective parent ]
3. Not suitable for display purposes near potential IRA or Islamic extremist's locations
4. Not suitable for anyone suffering from a respiratory condition 
5. Not suitable for anyone suffering allergies to poisons..........Derek 






 

[RaaArtyGunner]

Derek,
So in a nutshell,  good stuff,    she's all OK mate   

[Bigdave]

Hi Geoff,
This is a basic drawing of the system.
You control the amount of oil with the valve on the holding tank.
The oil is injected into a disc shaped chamber at the end of the boiler that is in the heat stream.
Thanks for all the good ideas so far. Dave.

[Canopus]

Thanks for the diagram, so it looks like a small amount of steam/condensate is used to pressurise the oil reservoir thus forcing a small amount of "oil" into the flame at the base of the funnel - Hmm I would think that this could be a little temperamental as if you ran out of oil then a small jet of steam would flow into the flame (possibly putting it out) but also suddenly reducing steam pressure. I have no doubt such systems work, as Satio have built them, but how reliabily may be another matter but it may be there is sufficient oil in the reservoir to outlast the water in the boiler so is just this not an issue, which makes sense.

As regards the other suggestions for making up smoke oil, again I have no doubt they will all work but with my experiments using similar combinations I found the following issues:

1) The oil can catch fire if heated to beyond its flash point

2) There is oil residue within the funnel (which could catch fire at some point - like a soot chimney fire!) and residue over the masts and funnel of the model

3) If using nichrome wire (used in electric fires) is in direct contact with oil then gradually carbon deposits coat the wire which will cause overheating, loss of performance and burn out, and again with the ever present danger of a hostile fire.

4) I did try baby oil and that worked quite well - also produced smoke!

With the fog fluid system, which I have now used for a number of years, other than a few drops of condensate on the funnel cage I have never found any residue on the model and as the fof fluid is not flamable there is no chance of a hostile fire.

With a steam plant I can't really see a problem if there is a small fire in the funnel given that we typically have a gas flame thrower operating anyway! My main concern with oil based formulas remains a hostile fire and the oil residue which is created, but certainly all the suggestions are worth a try.

I had also thought of using a supply of fog fluid into the boiler to see if it would evapourate and produce smoke but have not got round to testing such a system out but perhaps some enterprising sole can try some experiments and report back.

Regards

Geoff

[steamboatmodel]

Hi Geoff,
We had a long descusion on Fog fluid (Glycol) use in a boiler on the model boats forum http://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=1856&p=1
I reached the conclusion that I will NOT be adding it to my boiler as when running a public demonstrations I always have someone who wants to smell the steam.
"Toxicology Harmful if swallowed. May be harmful if inhaled or in contact with the skin. Skin and respiratory irritant. Severe eye irritant. Typical OEL 10 - 25 ppm. Reproductive hazard. "
If I operated my models privately and did not exhibit them at shows or venues where the Public was involved I might try using Glycol. Having a wife and two children who are asthmatic I know how little irritant it can take to trigger an attack. With this in mind and the frequent occurrence of young children (and some not so young) wanting to smell the steam, I feel the trace of steam oil is the only thing other than water vapour that I can expose them to.
Regards,
Gerald.

[Canopus]

interesting, and a valid point, but the fog fluid I use is ready mixed from Maplin states it is non toxic on the container. It's the same stuff that is widely used in disco's and shows for special effects.

Perhaps I wasn't clear this was what i was using, not neat glycol which can indeed be toxic.

Hope this helps

Geoff

[steamboatmodel]

Check the ingredients most of the ones sold do contain Glycol up to 20%. Most of the special effects personal use dry ice for indoor work or one of the water foggers now. I helped with some TV work years back that used the Glycol fluid, and by the end of the day everything had a fine coat of glycol on it. One of the TV personal went to pick up a model boat and it slipped out of his hands and bounced on the concrete floor causing sever damage to it.
Regards,
Gerald.

[Canopus]

I can only comment that I don't tend to use smoke oil indoors. When on the lake all the oil concoctions I have used leave a greasy film on parts of the model, whereas the glycol based products leave nothing.

It's also worth commenting that oil based units create carcegens, cancer causing stuff.

Main point is to be sensible when using smoke machines