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Author Topic: Legal Aerokits plans?  (Read 36178 times)

Arrow5

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2010, 09:39:17 am »

Where do we see pictures of the Tipo 61, bella machina,form and function, beautifully ugly. My favourite car.
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vintagent

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2010, 02:21:01 pm »

Since this isn't the place for model cars, here's the link to my friend's fotki site, on which is the Maserati Birdcage folder.  If you look further on the fotki site yo',ll also find my step-by-step on building a 1/12th scale McLaren M8F.  Some of my £10,000 drawings on that one too<g>

http://public.fotki.com/cafox513/maserati/that-cage-frame/


Vintagent
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Arrow5

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2010, 02:51:23 pm »

They when did you ever stick to the rules ?!  I`ve added a picture of her (real one) with the clothes on and in Scottish racing blue. Stolen from the auctioneers website. >:-o  You really don't want to Know how much it sold for ! >>:-(   OK back to boats.

Picture removed on request.  :-)
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vintagent

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2010, 03:36:21 pm »

The one I did was the ex-Gurney/Moss Nurburgring 1000Ks winner. Only race it ever won in it's day!
I had a choice of five!  Later the Streamliner too. All in one little Norfolk village behind the guy's bungalow!
He has the original moulds and core boxes for 4 cylinder Maser engines, so he's a bit good.  My son worked for him for 9 years.
Ain't many 27 year olds can rebuild a vintage Maser transaxle like him!!
The Moss car sold for 1.8 million at the time, but lesser history cars have been pulled from auctions at "only" 680,000!!

Vintagent
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2010, 02:38:51 pm »

COPYRIGHT - A MODEL BOAT MAYHEM POSITION STATEMENT.

From time to time the issue of copyright and potential abuse arises. It is important for me to make it clear that Mayhem does not support any infringement of copyright. Mayhem facilities must not be used to further copyright abuse.

Copyright is intended to protect the originators value in the material. To breach that right is stealing.

A polite request to many copyright holders will often result in permission to copy. A modest quotation from copyright material for research, personal use or to illustrate an issue is normally permitted.

Please ensure that you do not involve Model Boat Mayhem in copyright infringement.

 Martin - Admin
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vintagent

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2010, 04:50:20 pm »

Martin, I think that whilst you have to say all that...It's a bit late now!!

But no more from me. I'm bored with saying it all.

Regards,
Vintagent
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2010, 05:02:11 pm »

COPYRIGHT - A MODEL BOAT MAYHEM POSITION STATEMENT.
...
To breach that right is stealing.
...
 Martin - Admin


Ummm... no, it is not.

A breach of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 is quite distinct from a breach of the Theft Act 1968. For a start, theft is a distinct criminal activity, and though there are now criminal sanctions for making or dealing with articles which infringe copyright, the offence is firmly rooted in civil law. There are also numerous extenuating circumstances under copyright law such as the concept of 'fair dealing' and 'Permitted Acts', which do not exist in the Theft Act. 

It is perfectly reasonable for Mayhem to hold the policy position that they will not support or become involved in any breach of UK law, criminal or cvil. Indeed, I would expect this to be the case! It is reasonable to make the stronger statement that Mayhem do not wish to lay themselves open to possible legal proceedings, and hence will avoid and reject all discussion of copyright issues on their forum. It is a credible statement to say that, in the view of Mayhem Administration, breaches of copyright are akin to stealing and will not be countenanced.

But you cannot say that 'breaching copyright' IS stealing, because it isn't. This is a slogan often used by those who lobby for tight legal control on the reproduction of 'intellectual property', but it has no basis in fact.
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Arrow5

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2010, 05:21:05 pm »

Martin, or Mods.  Please delete the picture of the Type 61 that I admit to having borrowed to illustrate a point but was  slightly off-topic anyway.  :embarrassed:
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2010, 05:54:30 pm »

Done..... nice mota though!  :-))
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vintagent

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2010, 08:09:27 pm »

Hey arrow5,
I've got LOADS of pics of the Type 61.  I took them all.
Let me know if you want any.

Regards,
Vintagent
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riggers24

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2010, 08:24:24 pm »

As far as I can remember Cauldercraft/Jokita thought they had bought all the rights to the aerokit range but when they were going to release one of the models Lesro got wind of it and threatened to sue and I am sure there was a long drawn out arguement about this.
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Arrow5

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2010, 09:38:43 pm »

Naw , thanks Vint.  I`ve got my own memories , I`ll tell you one day. Nice offer Ta. :-))
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Dekan

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2010, 10:26:24 pm »

I'm trying to get a Sea Commander kit or plan... but the plan as sold by lesro for  £22.95  http://www.lesromodels.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=85_104&osCsid=ed4d1745624a4490fbc62ec65e5800ff  is excessive IMO
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vintagent

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2010, 09:16:43 am »

I'm trying to get a Sea Commander kit or plan... but the plan as sold by lesro for  £22.95  http://www.lesromodels.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=85_104&osCsid=ed4d1745624a4490fbc62ec65e5800ff  is excessive IMO

QED.
Vintagent
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Dekan

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2010, 05:30:00 pm »

Its all been pretty negative so far, but here's a reminder why it's worth getting a plan.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ai3Sn3LJE
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TCSC47

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2010, 01:52:13 pm »

Hi everybody. I found this site and this string looking for plans of the Sea Nymph. I am retiring this month and it is time to do all those things I never finished! I half built a Sea Nymph back in the early 60's and its remains got lost somewhere along the way. I have desperately been looking for some plans. The utube reference from Dekan has got me tingling all over! (no comments on that please!)

The e-bay web site in the first post has been finished so I hope there are not going to be any commercial wrangling over this.

Re - discussion of paying for things like this here. Am I correct in thinking the following. There is nothing stopping people and in particular, members here, exchanging copies of the plans. What would be wrong is to reproduce the plan and sell it for profit. The plan of the Sea Nymph is over 50 yrs old, so would be out of copyright, unless it has been reapplied for (or whatever it is called). I have tons of plans and I would be happy to simply post them in some way. Plenty of other people have done that and I am very grateful to them.

Also, I don't think it is wrong for people to try and make a reasonably small amount of money from reproducing plans from heritage (?) kits. My other passtime is collecting Hornbydublo 3-rail and if it wasn't for the traders at the toy and train fairs I would have nothing.

I would be saddened if they were able to fund their Mediterranean yacht however. I don't think that is what it is supposed to be about.

I would be prepared to pay about the price of a hobby magazine, £3 to £4 for each A3 size print/ part of a plan. Anymore and I would draw it up myself. There is already a pic in another string here with just enough info to re-create the paln fairly closely.

It is not boating, but have a look at the Frog website - http://www.houseoffrog.co.uk/ - to see a superbly professional looking site with tons of free Frog model airplane plans, and see what people are prepared to do to further their hobbies! When people do this, then we all should be contributing somehow.
Cheers.
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TCSC47

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2010, 02:00:06 pm »

Also to add. This forum looks excellent with speel check and preview facilities. Martin has written the rules in a nice manner and the participants seem to be reasonably polite to each other. A change from some other forums.
Rock on people!
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2010, 03:20:21 pm »


... Am I correct in thinking the following. There is nothing stopping people and in particular, members here, exchanging copies of the plans. What would be wrong is to reproduce the plan and sell it for profit. The plan of the Sea Nymph is over 50 yrs old, so would be out of copyright, unless it has been reapplied for (or whatever it is called). I have tons of plans and I would be happy to simply post them in some way. Plenty of other people have done that and I am very grateful to them.


umm... I think your copyright dates may be a bit behind the times.

Copyright periods used to be quite a short time, but during the 80s there was considerable pressure from the US film industry to make them 'forever'. On being told that that would not be acceptable, one US lobbyist famously said - "OK, how about forever minus one day?"  >>:-( >>:-(

They are currently variable - I suspect that boat plans may come under 'artistic works', which would be 70 years (two generations) after the death of the creator. That date was chosen under strong US influence, to ensure that no items would come out of copyright until there was nobody left alive who could remember items coming out of copyright. I assume that, at that point, a law granting ownership rights of 'Intellectual Property' in perpetuity would be easier to pass.  >>:-( <*< >>:-(

If my reading of current UK law is accurate, these plans will never become available for public use in our lifetime, or that of our children. Our grandchildren may have a chance, unless the law is changed in the meantime... <:(


The principle of copyright is a complex concept, and it is bound up with the concept of making a profit. I may be wrong here, but my reading is that you are correct that lending items or making them available for free in a library is protected under the concept of 'Fair Dealing'. That is why I went off on a rant earlier about the comparison with 'stealing' - a comparison which the supporters of 'Intellectual Property' tend to make, and one which is simply incorrect propaganda. This is also the reason why opponents of music 'file-sharing' on the net continually try to pretend that this is 'costing them money' - if a 'music pirate' would not have actually bought a copy of a song then passing a copy to him does not breach copyright...

For the above reasons I ensure that no money is exchanged when I pass data on old ships around. Incidentally, why pick 'House of Frog' as an example? It is indeed a superb site - professionally finished, and definitively researched, but we do have at least one small UK vintage boat plan distribution site running on a shoe-string - modesty forbids me actually mentioning the name.... :-X
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Dekan

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AeroKit Plans
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2010, 04:46:01 pm »

I have just got off the phone after speaking with John R Wright at JoTiKa Ltd

I bought 3 Aerokit plans from him for 7.50 inc p&P Sea Rover,Scout and Commander 8)  

They have a large selection of Aerokit plans and are more than happy to sell them :-))...The first one will cost you £3.50...you then get a discount on every one you buy after that :-))

John asked me to remind everybody that these are the original plans as supplied with the kits and may or may not be exactly full size..( He said that he had never measured them) and there are no bulkheads shown.... so you will have to work them out yourselves..

But the good news is that the bulkheads are all more or less straight lines as the kits where designed to be band sawn


Sea Commander kit due in 3 weeks or so...it's a less complete kit than the Sea Queen so it should be a quite a bit cheaper in proportion
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Circlip

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2010, 05:45:35 pm »

Quote
They are currently variable - I suspect that boat plans may come under 'artistic works', which would be 70 years (two generations) after the death of the creator. That date was chosen under strong US influence

  Strangely enough, it's surprising how many of Vics A/C plans are regularly posted on the American fori despite the illustrious my Hobbie store archives selling them.

  Regards  Ian.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: AeroKit Plans
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2010, 08:01:23 pm »


Sea Commander kit due in 3 weeks or so...it's a less complete kit than the Sea Queen so it should be a quite a bit cheaper in proportion


This is welcome, though surprising, news. How long have Jotika been sitting on these kits? And I wonder why they have not released their RAF Crash Tender? That will be the biggest seller by far....
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Dekan

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2010, 08:31:25 pm »

No kits..... only lots of plans. The only kits are the ones Jotika are making.

John R Wright seemed a genuine guy....... He told me that they are very busy at the moment, hence the delay on the Sea Commander ...He seems to think he has the right to make the kits and inherited lots of plans in the process..

I'm amazed at all the bad feelings that seem to surround Aero Kit plans  
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2010, 09:16:52 pm »


No kits..... only lots of plans. The only kits are the ones Jotika are making.


A little confusion - I meant to imply that Jotika had announced that they were going to market the full range of Aerokits kit models many years ago - over 10, I should think, and that in all that time they have managed to produce one kit - the Sea Queen.

When Aerokits ceased making these popular kits I believe that the rights to produce them were sold on to several organisations - at one point I believe that a Bournemouth model shop owned them (?) - but nobody actually made any kits for sale. When Jotika obtained the rights people assumed that the kits were going to be available again - but there was a long wait, then one kit came out, and since then there has been an even longer wait. I suspect that this is the reason for the 'bad feeling' around this whole sorry saga....
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2010, 09:19:06 pm »

Is there a list of all the Areokits anywhere?
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Dekan

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Re: Legal Aerokits plans?
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2010, 09:46:06 pm »

Thanks for the clarification, I'm new to the world of model boating and interested in making a classic boat of my youth.

As some of you may have gathered from reading my previous posts, I'm basically a RC plane builder


No such problems with plans for old plane models...

Lots of plans and kits for old timers and classic models ...It's a shame that model boating doesn't have some like SAM (The society of Antique Modellers)    
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