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[Mi Amigo]

I bought a hull and plan from ebay last week, it arrived three days ago via parcel force.

On arrival the packaging was so bad that the stand was broken and falling out where it had ripped open, the hull had also sustained some damage.

The scupper slots had already been cut by the seller, the top edge of one side has been partially folded over and had cracked / broken the fibreglass between the slots.

It's not a huge amount of damage,  it can be repaired, the point is the packaging was without a doubt woefully inadequate, it had one layer of bubble wrap covered with one layer of cheap thin black bin liner with minimal tape.

My view at that point was' oh well another crap ebay seller, give him a neg to warn others and that will be be the end of it'.

Before doing so I sent him a message to tell him how disappointed I was with his packaging and to give him a chance to explain any mitigating circumstances he might have.

He responded quite promptly, apologised and asked if I can send some pictures of the damage for him to show parcel force, he also said this is the fourth time that they have damaged an item he has sent.

The question I am asking myself now is..., is it just a case of 'the bus went without me' attitude or is it some sort of mini scam where he deliberately so badly packages things in the hope that he can claim money back from parcel force?

I don't know whether he intends to get compensation for me or himself, he didn't mention that, I don't want any compensation from parcel force because the seller couldn't be bothered to put a little time and effort into his packaging, it would be wrong, in fact I don't want any compensaton at all, I just wish the hull had been packaged properly.
 
What should I do, should I send him the pictures?

[triumphjon]

maybe its the sellers way of making an extra buck ! ive also bought a boat on fleabay that was badly packaged , again wrapped in binliners like yours , thankfully the carriers didnt damage it . there seems to be a minority that trade through there that delight in overcharging the delivery costs & poorly packing it ?

[tt1]

Hi Mi Amigo, I too would be sceptical of this guy's motives especially as he seems more concerned with his courier than you his customer having received damaged goods that he himself despatched.
      Trading standard stance is that any product or service must be fit for purpose, his packing obviously wasn't! 
Dependending on how I feel about it would prompt my course of action. Possibilities :

    1.   Contact the courier yourself and ensure if possible any compensation that may follow is directed accordingly 
    2.   Think sod it, put it down to experience and just another injustice of life        Another one off the Christmas card list!
    3.   Send him the pics by registered post with an accompanying letter stating your wishes of reasonable recompense (keeping a copy of all for follow up if required or desired) 
    4.   As 2. above but also send him an email telling him just what you think (if only to get it of your chest), whilst advising him of the fact that as this is supposedly his fourth despatch damaged in transit then he ought to b - - - - y well learn to pack to suit transit conditions!   
     
                  However you play it Amigo I wish you well, regards, Tony.   

 

[RaaArtyGunner]

The following courses of action are available,
1. Respond with an immediate negative feedback    listing packaging after all you paid for adequate post and packaging.
2. You can't get anything from the carrier as you are not involved ie he is the carriers customer not you. 
3. Don't send photos keep them for your claim against the seller.
4.Make a full refund claim against him from ebay, much easier to do if you used Paypal.

[Prophet]

find the return address on the packaging .. then send up the boys 

[Patternmaker]

Unfortunately this is common on ebay, is the seller blaming the courier or was the item damaged before dispatch, if you paid by paypal
open a dispute for goods not as described, if you want to keep the boat you can get a partial refund, if not a full refund.

The main thing is to keep corresponding with the seller before giving any feedback, this way the seller knows you mean business.

[Philipsparker]

Blimey, you lot get angry quickly. The first thing to think is, "Is this guy a professional ?"

If not then he could well be some idiot like any of us who had problems. I've sent stuff via Parcelforce and it's been broken in transit. Sorry to say they and every other courier can be rubbish - DHL have still got a camera I ordered a couple of months ago from Dixons (I've already had a full refund) for example. I've sent and received things that have been well packed and still arrived in bits. OK so the packing might not have been adequate but I'd still give him the benefit of the doubt to start with. Send the photos, let him try and claim from Parcelforce, after all, what does it cost you ?

My feeling with eBay is that sellers are still normally amateurs. If I get a bargain I'm happy but if I want to be sure I go to a real firm such as one of the many who supply our hobby. That way I pay full whack but can be more confident of the results. When I've had problems in eBay, they have always been sorted out. At least twice this was with a full refund. I've also done the same, preferring to keep a clean sheet of feedback.

As someone else says, keep talking with the seller. That way even if they are trying to rip you off (with a model boat hull, surely there are better scams out there) then you get to annoy them for a while and possibly get the money back as you are more trouble than you are worth.

Phil

[Klunk]

I had this a few months ago when I sent out several small packages over the uk on ebay. Out of 9 packages I had one with negative feed back saying the packages were poorly wrapped, and had been ripped open, damaging ther goods. I was sending out 6 white metal figures (warhammer) which were wrapped in bubble bags, then wrapped in bubble wrap, then put in a TYVEK envelope. When I asked for photographic proof, I was told he had thrown the envelope away. I contacted ebay and asked them to investigate, and sent a picture of the type of envelope used, as these are special envelopes, which had been preprinted through my work, with a special logo. (NOTE, If anyone can rip tyvek they must be very strong as it is actually designed NOT to be ripped). Upon their further investigation and contacting other people he nhad bought from, it was found that he was pulling this scam a lot to get discounts.  Ebay subsequently banned him!
Note two things for reference.
1 When you buy off ebay, it is the buyers responsibility to note the package and postal costs, if this seems too high you can report the seller to ebay, as this breaches their policy.
2 it is the sellers responsibility to ensure that all items are packaged in a state that can be legally sent via postal or couriers.

In a lot of cases couriers will not accept responsibilty for damage if the packaging is inadequate!

[mattycoops43]

You don't just go to neg feedback, or a paypal claim first, in fact they won't entertain a claim if you haven't tried to get a refund.

Email him and ask him for a refund, he will expect you to send the boat back, but as it's expensive to post something like that, send him the pictures and ask if he would like to pay for the return postage or just give you the refund without having it back. It is normal though that a refund does not include postage so you will lose that.

Most sellers want to be helpful and don't want neg feedback so will try to help.

If he gives a refund and doesn't cause you hassle, give him positive feedback. That is ebays policy, neg feedback is for cowboys and it wasn't his fault technically it got damaged, even if it wasn't packed great!

Matt

[Edward Pinniger]

I'm in a similar situation with a Graupner Optimist (not a dinghy but a 1960s One-Ton Cup yacht) I bought recently on eBay. It was described clearly as a model in need of repair + restoration - the mast + rudder were broken and the rigging, fittings etc. were in a mess. However, the hull and keel shown in the photos were clearly intact + whole.
When I received the model in the post, the lead keel had snapped off leaving a large hole in the bottom of the ABS hull (see photo) . This turns a straightforward restoration project into a lengthy and difficult repair job  This had definitely happened "in transit" - the boat was packed in a large cardboard box (significantly larger than the hull) surrounded with foam chips, so there was nothing to stop it from moving about when dropped.

The seller appears (from their feedback + other items for sale) to be a dealer/semi-professional seller, but they specialise in model railways and presumably have little experience with packaging this sort of item. The boat was not (unlike Mi Amigo's purchase) packaged too lightly - it was in a sturdy cardboard box with enough foam chips to fill a black rubbish sack - just inappropriately (there needed to be something  - e.g foam blocks, cardboard pieces - to securely wedge the hull inside the box and stop it moving around). It doesnt look like the seller wasn't deliberately negligent or careless (they have 100% feedback with nearly 10,000 transactions), hence I'm reluctant to just leave negative feedback.

Another factor is that I won the auction at a ridiculously low price (£35 including postage). I suspect this didn't bother the seller too much as it isn't their main area of specialisation (maybe they got it as part of a collection/job lot) and with thousands of previous sales they're no doubt used to items sometimes selling for less than expected. However, it does seem (to me at least) a bit unfair to expect even a partial refund when I paid barely more for the model than it would have cost to buy the lead for the keel!

I haven't yet contacted the seller or left feedback; any suggestions as to what I should do? I'm inclined to leave positive feedback along the lines of "damaged in post, but still a bargain" and e-mail the seller about the damage (maybe with suggestions on packaging), so that they can avoid a similar occurence in future.

As for what I'm going to do about the keel damage, I'm planning to shape a wooden block to fit the bottom of the hull where the keel joins, which will both plug the hole and provide a rigid mount for the lead keel to be attached to. The keel attachment seems to be a weak point of many Graupner ABS-hulled yachts - in most build logs I've seen, the builder has added an additional wood plate or bulkhead inside the hull for the keel bolt to attach to - and I'd probably have added some sort of reinforcement here anyway, but it would certainly have been a lot less work if the hull + keel were intact!