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[Le Caux Deux]

I totally agree with Knoby, this hobby should be about Model Boats that sail, in fact if people want to just exhibit models of boats then there are more appropriate places such as model engineering exhibitions where they can display their work.

What can be simpler than making up a course to sail our boats on. It probably takes us a few hours to design one, but that work will last years and can be adapted and changed from time to time.

What do you need?
At the most 20 Red Buoys and 20 Green
Some Post to rest on the bed of the lake or some weights to anchor harbours and islands down
Some Scrap wood or railway sleepers, preferably painted
Some Old Plastic pipe of different diameters (ours was picked up from the side of the road after a utility repairs)
A bit of imagination and ingenuity
In fact if you use the same creativity you use to build the models it probably costs next to nothing

It probably takes two people between half an Hour to an Hour to lay it out, and half that time to put it away. I know if you use a public lake its not as easy but Kirklees do it and they use a lake in a Public park

So come on lets get some events organised, and get the public in to watch

With this mail I am giving away 'A free course plan' to start you off
In fact it's a two for one offer - just sail it in the other way round for your second 'free course plan'

Mike

[triumphjon]

with the amount of frequencies available to modelers today why is it that only one boat is on a course at a time ?

[stoney]

 More boats more MAYHEM ! 

  Paul

[Le Caux Deux]

with the amount of frequencies available to modelers today why is it that only one boat is on a course at a time ?

Isn't that what we are all saying?????

If you are serious about changing things keep this thread alive and it will generate more interest!
if members aren't interested - let the subject drop and it will become, like most ideas, a storm in a teacup.

My vote is change things! So that model boating it what the title says Models of Boats that Sail on Water!!!!!!

Let the rest join the Model Engineering Forum

[nemesis]

Hello, read all the postings, been there, done it & got  the proverbial tee shirt. The best comp that I ran was back in the 70s & every entrant sailed the same boat, Namely my trawler, 19 entries, great fun & no, I did not win. As an aside, the only true competitions in model boating are in the straight running section. You, your boat and the markers to get through across the lake. No judges, everything open & above board, you either get through or you miss, simpels, My opinions only. Nemesis

[roycv]

Hi all, one of the things about a regatta is the amount of preparatory work necessary.  With a simple sailing regatta then you just need 3 buoys.

They need to be positioned so that the first leg is into wind, so that there may be some jockeying and timing for the start.

regards to all and a Happy New Year.
Roy

[John W E]

Hello, read all the postings, been there, done it & got  the proverbial tee shirt. The best comp that I ran was back in the 70s & every entrant sailed the same boat, Namely my trawler, 19 entries, great fun & no, I did not win. As an aside, the only true competitions in model boating are in the straight running section. You, your boat and the markers to get through across the lake. No judges, everything open & above board, you either get through or you miss, simpels, My opinions only. Nemesis

tell the truth Nemesis, if I remember rightly, you were the only one who could afford a commercial radio control set - while the rest of us had a DIY OXO box with a 6 foot aerial and an old lamp off/on switch to control our models - and that is why we only used your trawler to sail around the course  .   

To add me twopenneth worth, yes, Tynemouth and South Shields have many times had a good few scale sailing competitions between one another and 9 times out of 10 it ended up in one big laugh - each club trying to outdo the other with a different course.   Like Certain People building fishing vessels that small to sail around the Shields course that we had to stop the competition for a good 3/4 hour while we retrieved the sunken vessel - and like the time the Tynemouth team knew that a certain person was bringing an independent paddle-wheeled tug (the Forceful) over to enter into their competitions - so they altered the width between the gates so I couldnt get through hey hoooo -

What I do have to say though, on a serious note, to all of those who build models with all the singing and dancing bow thrusters and what not, to enter into competitions thinking its going to make it easy, they have yet to come against a good skipper who knows his model really well and knows how to pilot it, cos I can guarantee that person will dance the pants off everyone - cos I have seen it myself. 


aye
john

[Le Caux Deux]

A few people have raised the question about different types and sizes of boat competing along the same course,
Its not beyond the whit of man to develop a points system that would go some way to balance out the manoeuvrability of different boats.

How many different scales are there
1 : 16+   +2
1 : 32+   +1
1 : 48+   0
1 : 64+   -1
1 :100+  -2
Anything Smaller -3

How many different Propulsion System are there
Single Prop & Rudder                          +2
Single Steerable Kort                            +1
Twin Prop Twin Rudders                     0       
Twin Steerable Kort                            -1
Twin Props with independent Motors     -2
More Advanced Systems                      -3

Plus Bow Thruster   -1
Plus Stern Thruster  -1

So  a 1 : 32 Tug with Twin Independent Korts and a bow thruster would start the course at -2

No one is going to agree with this! - But it could go some way to balancing things out, in fact one could force some of the people who only 'show' their boats into sailing them if there was a penalty for not completing the sailing course of say -10

This is going to create some flack I'm sure! You can argue about the figures but its an Idea and its a starting point

Mike

 

[nemesis]

Hello Bluebird, It was a futaba M 6 channel, cost me about £160 which was a lot in those days. yes we have had some fun over the years with the banter & such. I think the main thing I learnt going through all the rigmaroles that others are now expounding is to keep it Simple, KISS. My opinions only. Nemesis

[nhp651]

only one problem, LCD [well actually two really] with that......you penalise 1;100 scale ships on a course........why.........i'm sure a 1;32 scale tug at 30 inches long stands a far greater chance of getting round a course than a 1;100 scale IJNS Yamato at 9 foot long, and yet the yamato would, according to your list be penalised more.

secondly.........sadly and i'm with you here, lots of clubs just ain't interested in doing it anymore, due to lethargy and apathy from the few die hards who are expected by the majority in clubs to do all the hard work.

[longshanks]

Mike,

I think your handicap system is a clever way of levelling the field !

I also must agree with nhp, that the scale factor wont work as pointed out.

Change it to a length or even area (length x breadth) formula and your back on track.

I hope you get more feed back on this as it has definite potential 

[Le Caux Deux]

Yes I Agree about the scale being a problem' I didn't know which way to go with that. I was going to add an extra point score for size but thought that made it seam more complicated and thats the last thing we need.

The problem with scoring by size is where do you start?
Its got to be Length + Breadth but what range do you start at and finish at anyone any suggestions
My latest tug is 29" x 10" so I suppose that's about average so do you have a scoring based in 1Ft gaps (30cm)

Less then 12"    +3
Less than 24"    +2
Less than 36"    +1
Less than 48"    -0
Less than 60"    -2
Above 60"        -4


Mike

[triumphjon]

why should we have any penalties before attempting a steering course , after all we are trying to encourage more people to ENJOY the hobby ? with the exception of two sailing yachts all of my models are electric and 1/12th scale , all of them being under 4 foot in length as i live on the first floor of a block of flats with no lift , hence everything needs to be managable ! id rather see a competition that is based on driving skill !

[gingyer]

If you start to put pentalty points in then people switch off right away
have it as an open competition at first, encourage new people to take part  then once people get into the competition
look to having a novice and veterans competition so it is a bit more fairer for people just stating out
with the veterans having more rules to what you are suggesting

[John W E]

hi

The main problem, as has been said before, is to encourage folk to take part and become interested in scale sailing courses.   In years past it was found, in the South Shields Model Boat Club, that it was needed to have a Team of 3 people to organise the events.   Between the 3 people they would devise a course; if it were for 'in-club' we would keep it pretty simple consisting of something like 12 buoys laid out in 4 'pyramid' patterns and devise a course around that - making sure that one of the pyramids was allocated as a 'touch-buoy' where one had to nose-up and touch with the bow the point of the pyramid ball - then reverse and stern touch either the left bottom ball of the pyramid or the right bottom ball - depending on

a) whether the competitor's vessel was a single/twin screw and which side the screw was biased at (i.e. right/left marker buoy)

b) if the vessel was twin-screw - one had to reverse out between the two based marker buoys of the pyramid; and then circle the pyramid in reverse and touch the top pyramid marker buoy.

If we were setting up a competition for say clubs 'outside' we would include a docking procedure.  This was adjustable - for various sized vessels.  This consisted of 2 poles which stuck out from the side of the lake; and the competitor had to bring the model in between the 2 markers without touching them, but, the vessel had to be parallel to the lakeside.   The distance between the marker rods would be adjusted in accordance to the length of the vessel.  There were no points added/deducted at the start of the competition with regards to the size of the vessel used by the competitor.    It was mainly based upon whether or not one collided with a marker buoy or one completely missed out a part of the course.

One thing which I have noticed - a few clubs in the South of England (UK) tend to do - is to allow the competitor to walk alongside the bank or the lakeside along with the model whilst controlling it.  In the competitions we held at South Shields and Tynemouth - a square box was marked out of approximately 2 square meters - in which the competitor had to stand in this area and wasn't allowed to leave it, whilst controlling the model through the course.

aye
john

[Le Caux Deux]

The Whole object of this is to get more people to attend - take part in - Scale Sailing Events

The points that have been raised on how the are organised are all valid BUT the question still remains how can we get more people to take part
I think some form of handicapping scoring is a good idea as it could encourage the novices to get involved.

At the end of the day its the people at club level who will organise and hold these events, it is also up to them to publicise the events successfully so that we all know about them in advance and can arrange to attend.

The MPBA publish guides for judging different classes of boats but very little is said about scale sailing events so really you can make up your own rules as you wish

Mike

[John W E]

aye, the whole point of it is though is that the vast majority of folk in clubs just like to come down to the lake and sail.   If you put a set of buoys out and set a course with Rules and Regulations - nine times out of 10 - these people will just walk off.  But, if you state that there are very little rules with the only rules being they must sail around the buoys without colliding with them, with a set course, they will be quite happy with this in the beginning - but human nature will kick in and they will begin to complain about various sized models, various propulsion systems and it is then when you should be able to introduce a certain amount of Rules for the next time you set out a competition/course.  You will find the Rules will be accepted a lot easier; but, you will also find you cannot please everyone.   This is where, if you have a small Committee who design the courses and set them up, they will have the final say.  SIMPLES.... 

aye
john

[triumphjon]

bluebird , that sounds like a better solution , we all like somthing to attempt to sail around , our lake has a steel legged island/ mooring stand for the peddlos , while all craft are in use you can just see over the top of it so can sail around it , bit harder in the winter months as cant see around the swan shaped peddlos ! but a course with no rules would be better . jon

[roycv]

Hi all, our club has not had its' official RC cup regatta for some years now but we do get down to the lake now and again.
One of the popular events is to use the regatta course for a timing event.
You go around the course and if you touch or collide or generally do something that would mean a penalty point then you have to do a 360 degree turn and go through the gate again but with no penalty and continue around the course and if you touch then another 360 deg turn and so on.
The OOD  records your time around the course, but does not tell you.

Then you have to do it for a 2nd. time and the difference in the timing is your error, the one with the least error is the winner.
Its up to you!
regards to all, Roy

[Le Caux Deux]

Its nice to see events appearing on the forum for this year ,whether competitive or not, can I encourage all those posting events to enter them onto the forum calender, That way you can check if your event clashes with another, or as I do - plan which events to attend

Mike