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[BrianW]

Hi, would there be any way of  removing the rudder frame from my Boston Typhoon without destroying the hull?.I would like to replace it a brass copy.Thanks for the idea and pictures Bosun. Brian

[Martin (Admin)]

I think the kit supplied frame is made of soft white metal, if you can find the joint lines, how about cutting it out with a hack or razor saw?

Also see:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Modellers/Jim_Cowles/1ndex.htm
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19366.msg191597#msg191597

[50mm]

After looking more closely at the images that have been supplied as well as the construction of the kit, cutting the rudder out is simple enough , issue is getting the new one in.

Im not sure how the rudder skeg is built, if its part of the hull as a fixed part or if its a removable item, if its not removable your going to have to cut the skeg area off and repair it with a new part its the only way i can see you re-attaching a new rudder as it is fixed in two areas, top and bottom.

Its only a minior cut and repair , getting the paint to match up shouldn't  cause many issues as any repair will below the water line.

Only advice is to see if its worth change the rudder from a cast one to a brass ( i agree is should be done better late then never eh?) but if its not broke don't fix it!

[BrianW]

Thanks to you and Martin for the response.Have had a rethink ,rudder frame seems strong enough, my issue is with the weak rudder post.I might have to strengthen the bottom support to insert a bronze bush then make a new rudder using brass and the white metal bolted detail attached somehow.Should have made all from brass ,but as this is my first attempt at modelling didn't give much thought to the weakness of white metal in this application especially.Live and learn seems to be popping up all too frequently.P.S. Have added lead shot ballast on top of the heavily Araldited section of the frame internally.Regards Brian

[50mm]

as a suggestion if your able to have access to a large pillar drill maybe you could position the boat rudder under the drill and make a hole all the way through ( may have to do top and bottom pending on the drill bit length) the rudder post and then slip in a brass rod this would strengthen it.

I have to admit its a long shot and you would have to get the boat perfectly aligned for it to work but its possible to do, providing you have the right tool for the job.

Try it at your own risk.

Good luck

[tobyker]

If it ain't broke.....

[BrianW]

It is broke.Twisted the end off the top off the rudder shaft on the weekend.Did this checking the strength of the brass tiller i had just made against an object on my bench which should not have been there.Brian

[50mm]

sounds like something you did accidently on purpose 

now you have to remove the skeg, when you change the rudder skeg, make sure you make it detachable by a few screws or something, this will give you access to the rudder more frequently for general maintenance

[BrianW]

Hi 50mm, Thanks for your advice,much appreciated.Have taken everything on board(sorry about the pun) ,I now have a plan will keep you posted if you like.Brian

[Tug-Kenny RIP]

Here is a picture of the rudder being assembled on my Boston.

I tend to agree with you that it's a weak design, The rudder has a curve in the part leading into the rudder tube and I couldn't find a strong way of fitting a vertical shaft to it as it runs close to the skeg.

If you had a vertical bar down to the rudder then you would have to cut away the skeg part (which acts as a pivot) and have a removable section at the bottom as 50mm says.  The rudder tube could be left in situ and a close fitting brass bar fitted inside leading down to the new rudder perhaps. This would be a damage limitation version.

Hope this helps

Ken

[tobyker]

Looks a daft design to me. Why couldn't they make a vertical rudder post? there must be all sorts of nasty twists and torques through that bent link (In white metal???). Seems like a very good reason not to model that boat.

[Colin Bishop]

Looks a daft design to me.

But pretty normal on full size vessels. I would imagine that it is to give better mechanical leverage to the tiller mechanism inside the hull. No doubt some of our professional seafarers might be able to comment.

However it is a significant weakness when cast in white metal on a model. This material is convenient to use for the kit manufacturers but is not always the most suitable for the job in hand. The heavy cast rudders often found in kits are better off being used as ballast weights in my view! I usually treat them as a pattern to make up a stronger and lighter one in brass and wood. If your model reverses into something at speed by accident it's the rudder that frequently takes the brunt of it. Also, having a great big heavy casting slung on the back of the boat must have an adverse effect on servo wear and power consumption.

Colin

[BrianW]

Thanks to all for the contributions.I have decided to make a brass rudder (thanks Hobie 21).Because of the risk of damage removing the old frame,I will be making 3 pintle frames bolted to the existing white metal junk with a setup as per Hobie for the rudder attached.I am also hoping to attach the bolted detail and curved bottom post to maintain authenticity if possible.By the way Ken your build log should have been incorporated in the instruction manual as this was used as a constant source of referance well done.Brian.PS will post photos when done-so much to do.

[tobyker]

I suppose in the full size it does make it very easy to unship the rudder without disturbing the steering gear or having to have people inside the hull and outside to do the job. So, very good engineering resons for doing it in the full size, and very good engineering reasons for not doing it in white metal in the modell!

[Jimmy James]

Most of the single screw vessels I have been on (about 60 odd) have had the 6 or 8 bolt shoe to bolt the stock to the rudder, the design goes back to the big iron and steel windjammers and has been a standard fitting on ships for about 150 years ---- I'm surprised know one in the model world makes a brass replacement .... Has anyone looked???
Jimmy