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[Bryan Young]

Once again there seems to be a deafening silence on this forum where the South Shields show is concerned.
This is a great pity. Gathering from my informal/casual conversations I gather that this (the 3rd year) is to be the "make or break" year for the shows' future.
To be honest, I'm not really sure why this should be. There are more Model Boat clubs up here than you can shake a stick at, but I don't know if even they are all attending. The Regional (including Scotland) promotion of the event is "sparse" to say the least. Or it was last year. OK, I know that it's advertised in "Model Boats", and perhaps elsewhere, but not all modellers buy the magazines...and the general public certainly don't. Similarly, not all modellers are on Forums such as this...not that that would have done them much good. So wider promotion is needed.
Then there seems to be a poor response from "The Trade". For some reason this is held to be of critical importance. My own take on this is while they are required, the main requirement is to "get bums on seats", ie the general public.
Perhaps the stands are too expensive?
But I for one would hate to see it "fail". BY.

[tigertiger]

I don't know the situation.

But if there is a deafening silence, then there seems to be a gap in the marketing effort. If this is the case, then this is usually down to the organisers.

If the public don't know much about it, then neither usually does the trade.

Just my thoughts as a private individual.

[firedup]

I can confirm that the organizer does make little effort in terms of promotion. A couple of years ago I found myself walking around Kirkleys sail in  handing out flayers to promote the show printed by our club (I was at the time a member of a local North East club).
After spending an afternoon doing this it struck me that I must be daft .
Now with a little distance between me and the last time I was involved it seems very simple.
The show is an event to make money you make money by charging traders (a little extra by charging the public) the traders come if the public come. You expect the model clubs to promote the show(keeps the cost down) and they provide the attraction. Easy money, if no one come tell the North East clubs its their fault , move on to another location further south and start the process again traders might come if they don't need to travel as far who can blame them given the cost of fuel.

[ACTion]

I am sure that the level of promotion from the centre has been equal to that for any of the other shows 'organised' by the same folk i.e. Warrington, Doncaster and Blackpool. Colour ads in the model magazines aren't cheap (ask me how I know). However a bloke in Cheshire running a full-time model business isn't in as good a position to know where and how to publicise an event locally in South Shields as members of the local clubs. He has to rely on the local clubs to make their own contribution if they want a local show. I know the Blackpool club does most of the spadework for that show, but I don't know about Warrington. CADMA take the job on for the Doncaster show. As far as I see it, Mark Williams' input is to organise the hall hire, magazine ads etc and round up the traders for the event. He also cascades the details down to local club level. Promotion in the local media costs money; the more of it then the more money, and a lot of it would be wasted e.g. on folk who just aren't interested. This additional cost would have to be reflected in the admission price or loaded onto the cost of the stands.

Speaking from a trader's point of view we don't attend shows for the benefit of the non-modelling public as they don't buy much of what we are selling. Sorry, BY - we're not all devils incarnate, but that's business for you. What we pay in stand fees subsides the rent of the hall and makes the cost of entry for everyone else less. We attend five annual shows and we reasonably expect to increase our business year-on-year at every one, along with an general increase in business from that area afterwards. Only one show had failed to deliver that - South Shields.

There comes a point where one wonders if one is throwing good money after bad.

It's not just the cost of the stand - this is very reasonable compared with some other shows - but the cumulative cost of travelling (a 340 mile round trip), accommodation, meals out etc etc. Add to that the "personal" cost of working all weekend instead of having a rest and you can see that it's not at all a frantic dance to sound of a ringing cash register.

Having said all of that I think we really decided not to bother doing the NE show again when I found myself apparently expected to haggle over the price of a £1.50 motor mount. Good luck, mate - try someone else this year.

See you at Shepton Mallet?
DM

[Bryan Young]

Specifically replying to DMs rather odd rebuttal...but also to the wider readership.
I think you've got hold of the wrong end of my stick, but your response is certainly a mind-opener.
I realise that colour adverts in the modelling press is expensive....but surely promotional (B & W) adverts in local newspapers are cheap? And getting a mention in/on the local Radio or TV "What's On" programmes is even cheaper.
A "bloke in Cheshire" running his business probably goes to Sandown or Wickstead....how far is that from Cheshire?
     And now, only now - you have the brass neck to tell people like me that it's us "locals" who should be doing the promotion stuff for you! My mind boggles.
     You also strongly indicate that the show would attract people "who are just not interested" What kind of twisted logic is that? If you get your mind off your wallet for a minute or two, you may perhaps reflect on the possibility of getting more people interested in model boat building - for the long term, as against making a quick few quid.
   You also state that "we don't attend shows for the benefit of the non-modelling public". That more or less says everything about your attitude. No doubt you also bemoan the lack of youngsters coming to the hobby for the first time. Can't have it both ways,chummy.
    But then you also state quite categorically that shows are a "business". To a degree, I agree with you....but there's more to a show than just filling your pockets. It's also a window for what you do.
The constant striving for more business (read "money") can be ultimately self-defeating.
Why don't you and your ilk treat it as a new market to be exploited ? BY.

[ACTion]

Mr Young

If you choose to misread what I wrote - or you are no longer able to understand written English - then there isn't much I can say to defend my point of view. However I can't let your ill-tempered rant go unanswered. Let's deal with the most obvious bits first, shall we?

The bloke in Cheshire does go to Sandown and Wicksteed, but he has nothing to do with the organisation of those events.

I did NOT say that the show would attract people who were just not interested in modelling. What a foolish thing that would be to say - why would  they go? If you read it again then you might correctly infer that the cost of advertising in the local press would be largely wasted in that such advertising would mainly impact upon people who would not be interested in going i.e. it would be poorly targeted. To give an obvious example. we regularly get invited by unsolicited E-Mails to place an ad in the Independent on Sunday. It's possible that there may be a dozen or so modellers who take that paper and would be interested enough to pursue our advert in it, but at a cost of approx £1000 each then it would hardly pass muster as cost-effective. Sooner spend the money on advertising in Model Boats or MMI. I'm sure even you can grasp that.

I believe that it was a local club who approached the organiser and requested a show in the South Shields area. I don't know how much effort they have put into publicising it (I don't live anywhere nearby) but it seems to have reached your ears. I seem to remember you were there in both years and cheerfully walked away with a pot or two for your troubles. So why are you now stirring things up about poor publicity, Bryan?

As for attending a show for the benefit of the non-modelling public, what would be the point? We might as well try to sell electronic speed controllers at Smithfield Market if we were to apply your logic. Newcomers to the hobby are more interested in RTR model boats, but we don't sell those and I was writing from a personal point of view (I said that, too). We do view shows as a window for what we do but - and read what I said yet again - we have a reasonable expectation of that bearing some commercial fruit afterwards, and this just has not happenend after this show. You might feel that this is a reflection on our products, but that isn't born out by our experiences anywhere else.

As a trader I have to say that shows are first and foremost an opportunity for people to come and talk to us, to examine our products, to see if what we are selling is what they are looking for, and to purchase these items either then and there or at a later date. I also enjoy meeting customers whom I have dealt with only over the telephone or by E-Mail, and I regret that I personally don't have the time to wander round and look at the models on the club stands - ask anyone who has tried to get near our stand at Warwick about how busy we can get.

My opinion may vary from yours but you are approaching the subject from a totally different angle. However that doesn't make my opinion any less valid than yours, and I resent your use of cheap sarcasm and personal insults to attempt to make a case against me. We are all pretty much aware of how you view model traders in general but I can say categorically that you have absolutely no experience of dealing with us - and I am no doubt as happy as you to let that continue.

DM