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[kiwimodeller]

Hi, has anybody run any of the JMC steam engines or can anybody tell me more about their range? The Google translation of their website was pretty hopeless ( Line 1: Engines with dual drawers plan effects, plugging "STEPHENSON" as an example) but from what I can see the site gives sizes of engines in cc but not what the bore and stroke are. It also does not seem to have physical dimensions for the engines. I am in the market for a reasonable sized inline vertical twin and after visiting a few websites it seems to be coming down to either Saito or JMC but it seems difficult to pin down comparisons and prices. Any help from people who have run either would be appreciated as would help with a better translation. Thanks, Ian.

[KBIO]

Hello Kiwimodeler!
I would put the JMC above the Saïto in term of manufacturing quality = half way between Saïto and Anton. The Saïto must be 7.5cc(?) when the JMC will be 8cc or down to 5cc.
JMC is all machined down on a lath .
Over all sizes are the same. JMC has ball bearings on the extremities of the crankshaft and  brass for piston cams? (I do not know how you call the two 1/2 pieces of brass that are around the crankshaft and go to  the piston shaft)
They look similar but with JMC, you need to bargain. The price on the catalogue is too high and discussion always possible.
I have both and I am happy with both of them.
Note : no oiler included in the price.
I should be able to put you photos of the 5cc JMC tomorrow.
I hope , it is of any help!
Regards!

[kiwimodeller]

Great, thanks for that. There is no substitute for talking to someone who has used an engine to know if they are any good. I had read on this forum that Anton engines were highly regarded but they do not seem to make larger engines to suit the big boats I like to build. Good to hear that JMC are good quality too. Hopefully if I email them somebody there can reply in English, it is difficult to make a decision when I cannot read the website correctly. look forward to seeing a photo of your engine. Regards, Ian.

[MOG8]

Hi Ian,
there is no way. French steamers keep referring to their engines not by bore and stroke but by displacement.

Medium sized engines: From left to right:
American Graham TVR1A, now available with ball bearings.
French  JMC (5cc) 12 mm bore x 11 mm stroke.
French ANTON Cristal (3,5 cc) with pump.
Japanese SAITO T2DR 12 mm bore x 12 mm stroke

I cannot really say "this is the best one".
Each one has its own advantages and drawbacks, and these are the only modern engines in production.
They all run well, and seem to be quite long-lived. I would put a question mark about the TVR1A.
In order not to make mistakes, I have them all.
(It's a pity that I do not own a Monahan engine)

[kno3]

Giovanni, please be so kind and tell us about the advantages and drawbacks of each, I'm sure many would be interested.

[MOG8]

This is something that I did not want to say, but if you ask....

TVR1A :
advantages: good price for a very nice kit and engine, powerful, nice looking.
drawbacks: american threads all around. Reversing lever quite impossible (or difficult) to hook to a servo: I do not know how long the aluminum parts will withstand. I am afraid to put this engine on a launch because i am afraid some screws on the linkages will come loose. (It could also be my fault if this happens, but I do not trust thee screws too much)

JMC:
advantages: powerful engine well built.
drawbacks: Cylindres of a somewhat sad look, no castings, no lagging.
The reversing lever to the servo vibrates too much for my tastes. So far I haven't succeeded in a nice fine tuning of the Stephenson gear servo linkage.(Maybe it's my fault)

ANTON:
advantages: nice powerful engine, mine is a older version, well designed
drawbacks: sent back to the factory because it was not self starting under steam although perfectly selfstarting on compressed air, and fitted with a feed pump(quite expensive). Couldn't test it under steam because I have lost the boiler, or I cannot find it.

SAITO:
advantages: nice powerful engine, beautiful appearance, mine has a homemade pump.Superb reversing gear linkages. No troubles connecting the reversing gear to a servo. Expensive? I cannot remember, mine is 30 years old.
drawbacks: I cannot find any!

NOTA:
I must add that on this family of middle sized engines,  the following engines could be added also:
REEVES "BORDERER"
REEVES "MARCHER"
COTSWOLD "AVON"

[logoman]

Is there a mid size Regner also?

[MOG8]

There was the Regner "Junior" , smaller brother of the much more appreciated Regner "Goldi"

[kno3]

@MOG8: Thank you for the descriptions of the engines, they are very interesting.

@logoman: Except for their wide range of oscillators, the Regner Primus could perhaps fit in this group, although I think it is larger than all others mentioned so far. - bore 14 mm, stroke 18 mm.



Source: http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de/aktuelles/neuheiten2006/primus2_0_2006.php

[kiwimodeller]

Thanks for all the great info Giovanni, you are in a very fortunate position to have all of those great looking engines. I have a Graham single cylinder which has done quite a bit of work and is still going well and not showing any sign of wear yet. I also have a twin but have not yet assembled that. My Saito V4 goes very well but it is small capacity and not suitable for a large boat. I think the Anton engines are also a little small for what I want so I was getting keen on the JMC but as KB10 says they are expensive. Now Kno has shown me the Regner and for a larger engine the price is very reasonable, less than half the cost of the same size JMC. I realise that the Regner is a kit that needs to be assembled but I am happy to do that. Even the smaller JMC which is listed as a kit is is 338Euro more expensive than the Regner. The engine looks a little "agricultural" or old fashioned but that does not worry me as it will be out of sight. Has anyone had experience with the Regner? I am particularly interested in comments like Giovannis as to whether the reversing gear etc works well and whether the engine starts well. Thanks again to all for your helpful advice. Ian.

[KBIO]

Hello Kiwimodeller.
See video of Pamela Deare ==> you will see the Regner Junior.
I am quiet happy w/it.
For saïto: look here : Jensen Steam Engines.com
Bur I would not compare JMC with Regner. JMC has reverse gears when regner has drawers. And the esthetic is superior in JMC.
Concerning the engine that KNO3 shows, I think , it weights around 4 Kg.
Thank you Giovanni!
Regards!

[kno3]

The Regner Primus weighs 1,25 kg without the flywheel. I wouldn't use that flywheel anyway as it is huge and looks very out of place on a marine engine.
Regarding the quality of Regner engines: I haven't ever laid my hands on a Primus, but I have other Regner products. The quality is very good, didn't have any problems so far. The company is also quite forthcoming if you break a part during assembly or if something might not fit right. Just call them and they'll send you a replacement asap, I've been told.

[livesteam]

The quality is very good, didn't have any problems so far.

Well, I have made some different experiences. Materials they use are sometimes not of the best quality (not very long lasting) and  I had serious troubles with a gastank. It was leaking very much, and the alternative they sent me was not much better.

The company is also quite forthcoming if you break a part during assembly or if something might not fit right.

This, however, is also my experience.

[KBIO]

Regner Primus weighs 1,25 kg without the flywheel
Sorry! You are right! This is the Neptun which weights 4 Kg. I don't know if it is w/ or without flywheel though!
Cheers!

[TAG]

Hi
I have been following the discussion on medium sized steam engines with interest. I can thoroughly recommend the Cotswold Avon engine which has powered my 4 foot steam picket boat since 2002. This twin cylinder piston valved engine propels it at scale speed with 25psi on the clock for hour plus continuous sailings (automatic boiler water level control in service).
Although I have not had any problems with it so far the downside might be it's price, a check on the Cotswold website today showed it as being £786GBP.
Tim   

[MOG8]

Hi
I have been following the discussion on medium sized steam engines with interest. I can thoroughly recommend the Cotswold Avon engine which has powered my 4 foot steam picket boat since 2002. This twin cylinder piston valved engine propels it at scale speed with 25psi on the clock for hour plus continuous sailings (automatic boiler water level control in service).
Although I have not had any problems with it so far the downside might be it's price, a check on the Cotswold website today showed it as being £786GBP.
Tim   

I could not find the Avon in the current production range of Cotswold Heritage. Where is it?

[TAG]

Hi
You are right only the price shows. I think they are made to order, before I ordered I received pictures and information from Russell Nichols the owner who I found most helpful.
Tim

[kno3]

Could you show us a picture of the elusive Costwold Avon engine?

[HS93 (RIP)]

I thought they had stopped making them they looked a very nine engine.

Peter

[MOG8]

Could you show us a picture of the elusive Costwold Avon engine?

Here it is

[HS93 (RIP)]

I emailed them they are still for sale at £786. but still a nice engine

Peter

[kno3]

Here it is

Thank you. Can't say it is too beautiful to look at, but I hope it works well.