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Author Topic: Boating problem  (Read 3797 times)

Nige52

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Boating problem
« on: April 04, 2011, 12:05:14 pm »

I didn't know which section to put this in as the problem covers several aspects so....
For months my Victoria yacht has been fine, electrical wise, servos/radio/batteries. I am using a High Torque metal geared sail arm servo with a cheapish Acoms servo for the rudder. My radio was a GC Radioline 2.4ghz  one, a cheapo but works fine.

Suddenly 2 weeks ago, I sent the yacht out into the lake after checking everything and it went out about 50 yards then decided to go round and round in circles with no response from the radio. We eventually got it back and found that the sail servo was twitching and the rudder servo had gone past it's  maximum throw, and had tried to do a complete circle I reckon, bending the rudder push rod into a banana shape. There was no response from the radio, so we turned everything off and I manually twisted the servo arms back into the normal position.

Tested it out again on dry land and everything worked normally, back in the wet stuff and exactly the same thing happened......I gave up that day. On getting home I decided to change the Acoms rudder servo for a high torque servo identical to the sail arm one. On testing, everything worked fine, until hitting the water again the next time out, exactly the same problem....I then came to the conclusion it was the cheap radio at fault, so changed the Tx and Rx for another 2.4ghz system that I KNEW worked in my other models, a Planet 5. Everything tested fine on the kitchen table, until the Victoria race yesterday.
Pre-race check was fine, I managed about 20 yards out and the whole thing locked up again, resulting in the ever-decreasing circles scenario...

Up on my bench, I again manually turned the servos back to their normal position and dry tested the set-up. Fine for a few seconds, both servo's responded then suddenly twitched, did their own thing without any input from me, and the rudder servo started making a banana again from the rudder push-rod.

Surely it couldn't be 2 different radios at fault? So having an Esky 2.4ghz Tx with me, which I used for my fast electrics, I whipped the Esky Rx from the FE and changed it in the Victoria. Turned it on and exactly the same thing happened! Servo's went into a dancing routine, then locked up. This basically proved that it wasn't the radio to blame, a fellow club member even took the receiver out of his own Vicky and tested it in mine with the same thing happening, a lock up.

Right, so now 4 completely different transmitter/receivers have been in the boat and the problem continued. Everything was suggested from low batteries, bad wiring, bad on/off switch etc, but by eliminating these one by one, the problem remained.

This morning on the kitchen table, I tested it yet again, within seconds the servos locked up, so I whipped them out of the boat and connected them up minus servo arms, they work faultlessly......no matter what I do to try to get them to malfunction, they wont.  >>:-( >>:-(

Do you think it possible that it's the load on the servos that is sending them loopy? I am fast running out of ideas and have started thinking about where I put my lump hammer..... <*< <*<

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malcolmfrary

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 12:35:46 pm »

Look at the power supply, not just the battery, but the power wiring.  Been there, seen the movie, got the tee shirt, eaten the pie.  Hi torque servos demand perfect batteries, connections and wiring.  Wiring that has lain dormant over the winter, when a heavy demand is placed on it, might turn into a slow acting self resetting fuse.
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Nige52

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 12:48:01 pm »

That is something I will look at right now Malcolm, thanks. Out of the boat with no arms on them, they work perfectly, so you reckon it could be the load placed on them by the sail arm and rudder?
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Aeronut4

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 12:56:54 pm »

If your boat has been laid up for a while, a likely suspect would be black wire corrosion - as soon as a load is put on the servo, the voltage drops and the servo will either go loopy or just stop.  As Malcolm said - check all the wiring, particularly the switch harness and switch.

Gordon
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grasshopper

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 01:15:22 pm »

It's not a digital 'hi-torque' servo is it - they can also be amp-suckers. Tend to agree with the others that the supply is failing,

The first question I would ask: Are you using a four-cell battery holder with, even worse, only four rechargable cells? I've seen this with the car racing fratern that use the standard 4 cell battery box, stick in 4 AA Nimh cellls and then wonder why they have radio 'issues'. your radio could be struggling on 4.8volts and causing allsorts of weird faults.

Once you've checked everything as suggested, look to putting in a good 6v pack to power the radio and hi-torque servo - the holding power of a sail servo has to be paid for in current consumption.

first googled link: http://www.mtroniks.net/details1.asp/ProductID/255/sid/22/H107.htm
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triumphjon

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 01:24:35 pm »

im sailing with a kysoho seawind , with an old fp-s 125 ( square output drive ) sail arm servo & fp-s128 rudder servo , my radio is also a planet t5 with the rx wrapped in a balloon . for power im using a 5 cell 2600 nmhi rechargable pack , which to date ive had no issues other than a plug failure last week , it sounds like maybe your servos are drawing too much power from your 4.8 volt system ?
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Nige52

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 01:36:16 pm »

Hmmm.... I am using 4 x Duracell 1.5v batteries in my pack, all brand new as of yesterday. I'm now finding, messing about with various combinations, that when I connect either one or both of the Tower Pro High Torque servos, they twitch and tremble with no arms connected, but when I change to a couple of Acoms normal servos, this twitching stops......
Now, I have used these Tower Pro servos for 12 months, all last year in the Victoria with no problems....I am going to rewire the battery carriage with proper silicone wire to see what happens.
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triumphjon

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 01:40:45 pm »

have either of the servos been wet ? twitching can be caused by moisture inside the cases ! On both of my yachts  (seawind & wee nip ) ive opened the servo cases and smeared some silicone sealant around the joints ,which has helped keep the wet out . jon
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Netleyned

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 02:12:18 pm »

If it were me I would change the battery holder at the same time as they seem to be prone to corrosion and some times present a high resistance
to the battery
I use a new one in my Victoria each season and I also keep her indoors in the warm and dry and leave the hatch open all the time (except when on
the pond of course!)

Ned
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grasshopper

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 02:46:21 pm »

Just read 2 Hi torques, definitely change to a soldered 6v rechargeable pack and eliminate the cheapy 4 cell battery box, there are okay for toys - not for models!
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Nige52

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 04:23:38 pm »

Going on the replies, I've just bought a 2600mah 6v hump from Vapextech, hopefully this will resolve my problems  :-)
I still can't understand why the servos respond properly when out of the boat, but as soon as they go back in, the sillyness starts..... :embarrassed:
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 04:50:47 pm »

Let us hope that a better power supply sorts the problem. But if it doesn't, the remaining issue might be some kind of interference which is concentrated through the boat somehow. Have you, for instance, recently replaced any cord standing rigging with wire...?
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Nige52

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2011, 05:05:49 pm »

Problem solved!! (I hope)  :-))

I dug out another 4x battery holder that had thicker wires on and connected it up, worked first time! Why the set-up suddenly decided to fail, I don't know as the boat is kept in the bedroom so no damp can get to it, the battery holder and wires were in good original condition and the connections were sound...I can only think that the wire itself had started to deteriorate or similar. I've tested it several times now and everything is working fine, touch wood.
I have learnt a lesson though, when servos or your radio starts playing up, it may not be them themselves at fault, look for the least obvious.
Thank you lads for all your help and advice, as usual this forum as come up trumps!
Cheers
Nige  :-))
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 06:19:44 pm »

Quote
Why the set-up suddenly decided to fail, I don't know as the boat is kept in the bedroom so no damp can get to it, the battery holder and wires were in good original condition and the connections were sound...I can only think that the wire itself had started to deteriorate or similar. I've tested it several times now and everything is working fine, touch wood.
You didn't see a little fellow covered in green fur while the boat was laid up?  He was a Gremlin.  They do nasty things to unused wiring.
Adding the second high torque servo probably didnt do any favours.  Just upping the voltage wouldn't help either if it was a wiring problem, in fact, it would probably make things worse by increasing the instability of the voltage at the servos under load.  I wound up changing the batteries, the holder, and the wiring and switch on mine after fitting a higher torque sail servo.
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triumphjon

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 09:33:56 pm »

i do find that however hard i try to keep the damp from my two yachts , it still finds its way into the hull  while im sailing , not to much of a problem with the wee nip as both the rx & battery / switch harness is inside a plastic food pot so sealed , but my seawind likes to have a little extra ballast taken onboard while sailing !  my only problem with this is i sail off shore in the sea around portsmouth , i now coat all plugs with silicone grease in a bid to help prevent corrosion .
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Boating problem
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2011, 10:23:37 am »

The big problem there is keeping atmospheric moisture out of the cable end, i.e. the bit where the insulation comes to an end.  Once it finds its way to the wire strands, the wire acts as a wick, so the wet gets in, stays in, and does its evil.  Silicon grease should do the job. 
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