Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7   Go Down

Author Topic: Steam boats banned  (Read 47594 times)

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,027
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2011, 11:14:32 am »

I saw the TV report.  I would very much like to see how Mr Dean would demonstrate his badly imagined hypothetical disastrous boiler explosion without pre-rigging (damaging) the boiler so that his required result could happen.  It certainly wouldn't happen with a certificated boiler.
The fact is, he can't.  He doesn't have the required knowledge to do so, and is using utterly inaccurate hearsay information as gospel to further his own misconceptions.  Had the case been in any way different, he would not have made the statement  If he did actually try it, he would find that, with a model boat sized boiler, there would be a pop and a fizz and that would be the end of the story.   And as for quoting an incident where the combined perpetrator and victim created the problem by buying safety equipment from an unknown source at the lowest possible price and then not bothering to test it first before firing it up.......... thats a Darwin Award candidate.
I presume that the use of LiPo batteries will also be banned because of their well known pyrotechnic abilities (story from the same man, probably in the same pub), and that, since speed is also a hazard, the Perkassa that was shown will have a suitable speed limit placed on it?  Then he can start worrying about yachties poking peoples eyes out with those dangerous masts.  It can go on and on.
The pollution comments have a similar level of inaccuracy, but did the smoke producing boat shown possibly have an oil vaporising unit fitted?  Best ban that, as well, it and similarly fitted boats are spreading more oil about the place than any steamer would.

Badly built and badly maintained steam plant can be a hazard, mostly to the user, so rather than a blanket ban, the notice should have stated that users of such craft should be able to produce current test and insurance certificates.
Logged
"With the right tool, you can break anything" - Garfield

Marks Model Bits

  • No Mustang Mark
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 827
  • http://marksmodelbits.com/
    • Marks Model Bits
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2011, 12:20:14 pm »

Quote
The pollution comments have a similar level of inaccuracy, but did the smoke producing boat shown possibly have an oil vaporising unit fitted?  Best ban that, as well, it and similarly fitted boats are spreading more oil about the place than any steamer would.

That would suit me just fine, hehehehehe {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))

Mark.
Logged
I HAVE NOT FAILED, I HAVE FOUND 1000 WAYS THAT DON'T WORK.!!!!

http://marksmodelbits.com/

The long Build

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2011, 01:35:33 pm »

Well I have just had 20 minutes of telephone run a round at Wiiral Council, They do not seem to know, and I gave up.

A. Which section deals with this pond. (you think it would be The parks Department)

B. Could not quote or reference me any Byelaws relating to this

C.The number they tried !! to put me to was always engaged..(but would not give me the direct number themselves..

You think they have had a couple of calls lately telling them what a load of Numptys they are..

I like the reports in the papers.. some say "As requested by the Club" others stating that it was a council decision.  The press are great.. %% %%
#######
Looking at my Boiler last night I can not see that the safety valve could ever blow out if the valve failed to work.

 
Logged

Yarpie

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2011, 01:36:20 pm »

I saw the TV report.  I would very much like to see how Mr Dean would demonstrate his badly imagined hypothetical disastrous boiler explosion without pre-rigging (damaging) the boiler so that his required result could happen.  It certainly wouldn't happen with a certificated boiler.
The fact is, he can't.  He doesn't have the required knowledge to do so, and is using utterly inaccurate hearsay information as gospel to further his own misconceptions.  Had the case been in any way different, he would not have made the statement  If he did actually try it, he would find that, with a model boat sized boiler, there would be a pop and a fizz and that would be the end of the story.   And as for quoting an incident where the combined perpetrator and victim created the problem by buying safety equipment from an unknown source at the lowest possible price and then not bothering to test it first before firing it up.......... thats a Darwin Award candidate.
I presume that the use of LiPo batteries will also be banned because of their well known pyrotechnic abilities (story from the same man, probably in the same pub), and that, since speed is also a hazard, the Perkassa that was shown will have a suitable speed limit placed on it?  Then he can start worrying about yachties poking peoples eyes out with those dangerous masts.  It can go on and on.
The pollution comments have a similar level of inaccuracy, but did the smoke producing boat shown possibly have an oil vaporising unit fitted?  Best ban that, as well, it and similarly fitted boats are spreading more oil about the place than any steamer would.

Badly built and badly maintained steam plant can be a hazard, mostly to the user, so rather than a blanket ban, the notice should have stated that users of such craft should be able to produce current test and insurance certificates.

Thank you for that malcolmfrary, what an erudite and considered comment. :-)) I wholeheartedly agree with all you have mentioned, but I would perhaps go a little further.

New Brighton Lake probably presents its own inherent safety hazards, but up until this moment nobody has considered them. Recently in my area, a gentleman drowned in three feet of still water in a tragic boating lake incident. By comparison, was this dreadful event used by any Tinpot Model Boat Chairman or Local Council in banning ALL activities on ALL similar recreation facilities??

The theory is the same although the outcome was tragically all the more serious.

In this sad case, although a decision made by a senior member of the rescue services was probably erroneous and ill considered, the resultant continued use of the boating lake was a triumph for common sense. A lesson was learned and life in general carried on.

If only that were applied throughout the United Kingdom.

Earlier in the thread unbuiltnautilus made a very good point about specialist insurance companies recognising inherent dangers in certain types of model boats (pyrotechnic display boats) and there is no reason why any other club could not pursue the same relevant insurance cover. There is absolutely no reason to ban particular craft from a public purpose built recreation area. My local lake has specific times for fast electric/IC craft and separate times for scale craft as well.

It would appear that this whole furore is the result of selfishness on the part of one particular group and gives a truly distorted perception of a traditionally peaceful pastime and hobby. :(( %)

Rest in Peace Rural England. <:( <:(

Yarpie.
Logged

garston1

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2011, 08:21:13 pm »

That would suit me just fine, hehehehehe {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))

Mark.

I have to apologise about the comments on the telly about steam boats giving off more oil than electric, i can't see that being a problem. The bloke interviewed, Mike Friend, is not a member of New Brighton' club and i can't think of the last time i saw him there! There's more to worry about than oil at the lake, it's filthy with swan s..te and anything else that would make your body parts drop off! :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Logged

The long Build

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2011, 08:44:42 pm »

Do not see why you need to apologise for something the News Reporter should have checked up on..
Logged

garston1

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2011, 09:13:23 pm »

All i want to do is go to New Brighton, sit in my chair, sail my boat(s), get some rays, and  admire the view. There is so much upheaval, cliques and back biting there recently it's unbelievable. It's grown up boys toys for gods sake, nothing more. It does tend to spoil your day.
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,027
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2011, 09:16:39 pm »

Do not see why you need to apologise for something the News Reporter should have checked up on..
The news reporter was looking for a story rather than boring facts.  More time spent checking facts in basically foreign territory (no football involved) means less time in the bar.  Any apology on his behalf or for him would be as pointless as (insert similie of choice) because it would be neither heeded nor noted, but thanks for the thought, garston.
The shrapnel theory was killed stone dead on Mythbusters, when they abused a copper hot water cylinder.  They had to totally seal the thing, remove all safety devices, and continuously heat it.  It did eventually burst, found its way through two floors and a roof, and got up to 500 feet.  They got up to 300psi before it ruptured.  The bottom blew out, the building was demolished, and there was not a trace of shrapnel.  
Model boilers are generally of heavier gauge material than hot water cylinders.  The material used will tend to split at a seam and vent the contents.  Generally, they never get anywhere near 300psi.  There is a heck of a difference between 100psi with 500ml, and 150 litres at 300psi.  Even the DTI recognizes this.  A pity the hierarchy of the club are unable to do so, and relinquish their grasp on the "model boiler = hand grenade" myth.
Logged
"With the right tool, you can break anything" - Garfield

HS93 (RIP)

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,922
  • I cannot spell , tough
  • Location: Rainhill UK
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2011, 10:50:55 pm »

you also Have to remember that this is the club that members where moaning on hear about boats sailing fast on there lake a few years ago,because members tie there boats up at the side of the pond all day on small pontoons and don't like waves making them bob up and down.


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1150.0

peter
Logged

firedup

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #109 on: April 29, 2011, 02:05:20 am »

Read to whole thread Peter best line was "Its such a pity we don't have a 'bringing the hobby into disrepute' charge and maybe a sinbin as well!!
I think that the red card should be shown to a few small minded individuals at this club.They have done much harm to the hobby at a local and national scale.
Shame on you
Logged

keef666

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #110 on: April 29, 2011, 07:14:02 am »

Well this has started something big, i didn't know this had been covered on the telly as well, but as far as i can remember about the insurance cover, this is only for public liability, e.g a small child gets your radio aerial in the eye, it does not cover damage to ones boat, you have to take you own insurance out for that,
Now if this ban spreads to other Councils, then the art of the Steam maker will be lost, another skill gone and another nail in the head for the U.K.
And wasn't the law changed a few years back, when it came to testing Steam plants out, if under 3Bar, then don't need testing! Didn't someone invent the valve!

I would suggest that any show or evert from now on,  Bans New Brighton Model Boat Club from attending until they do i U-Turn.
I am glad i left the club as i knew it was losing the plot 18 months ago R.I.P NBMBC.
Logged

dodgy geezer

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,073
  • Location: London
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2011, 08:34:59 am »

The news reporter was looking for a story rather than boring facts.  More time spent checking facts in basically foreign territory (no football involved) means less time in the bar... 

Someone here has a very clear idea about how journalists actually work. Unfortunately, science, technology and even politics are now foreign technology to the mainstreal media nowadays... <:( <:(
Logged

firedup

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #112 on: April 29, 2011, 10:10:06 am »

"Unfortunately, science, technology and even politics are now foreign technology to the mainstreal media nowadays...  "
Seem this is also the case with some of the club members
Logged

dave301bounty

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #113 on: April 29, 2011, 10:49:02 am »

 HS93 ,  you have asked a very good pount ,  that guy didnt see nor is a member ,work that out
Logged

truman06

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #114 on: April 29, 2011, 11:20:46 am »

oh dear oh dear
Logged

Dave13

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #115 on: April 29, 2011, 12:03:06 pm »

Hi all
Didn't I read somewere that the "Lad" bought the "Safety valve" on ebay now don't get me wrong but I would
allways get such a critical safety divice brand new or is that just me? :o :o
Thanks Dave:)
Logged

keef666

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #116 on: April 29, 2011, 01:19:17 pm »

Just been informed the club has a new Chairman, infact the whole lot stepped down, but i think the damage has been done.  O0
Logged

firedup

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #117 on: April 29, 2011, 02:13:57 pm »

Thats the first positive thing about the whole mess. The new Chairman can make a positive move by making an apology on this forum on behalf of the club then contact the council and the press to sort things out.
Logged

Philipsparker

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #118 on: April 29, 2011, 03:47:59 pm »

The council probably has better things to do and the press certainly won't be interested.

Phil - Who has a lovely Midwest kit steam launch which has no boiler test or safety valve apart from the rubber tube that takes steam from the boiler to cylinder. Works well though.
Logged

dave301bounty

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #119 on: April 29, 2011, 06:46:48 pm »

Just Watched the News report, The biggest load of Horlicks I have ever seen and Heard,   An Alan Dean and Michael Friend (as quoted on the report), Alan saying how the boilers might explode and send shrapnel into your eyes !! or anything, with Michael saying how the oil which is used to lubricate the steam engines might pollute the water, From what I saw of the water last time I doubt it would make any difference, and in a lot of cases is probably the same oil that is used to lubricate the prop shafts on a lot of boats..
Just seen and been informed ,Alan dean is being nomiated for best dik ead of all time and will join his favorites the wannabies

you can view the the report here..  and is 16.20 into the clip

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b010nr0x/North_West_Tonight_27_04_2011/
Logged

dave301bounty

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #120 on: April 29, 2011, 06:59:56 pm »

Well this has started something big, i didn't know this had been covered on the telly as well, but as far as i can remember about the insurance cover, this is only for public liability, e.g a small child gets your radio aerial in the eye, it does not cover damage to ones boat, you have to take you own insurance out for that,
Now if this ban spreads to other Councils, then the art of the Steam maker will be lost, another skill gone and another nail in the head for the U.K.
And wasn't the law changed a few years back, when it came to testing Steam plants out, if under 3Bar, then don't need testing! Didn't someone invent the valve!

I would suggest that any show or evert from now on,  Bans New Brighton Model Boat Club from attending until they do i U-Turn.
I am glad i left the club as i knew it was losing the plot 18 months ago R.I.P NBMBC.
If you had been there ,you could have worked it out ,a child of 6 could ,its all down to power ,conmtrol freak .that was the last secretaries thing .power freak .bad news .ruing a good club ,and one of the older type stood up and said how disgusted he was .
Logged

Yarpie

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #121 on: April 30, 2011, 03:15:31 pm »

Just been informed the club has a new Chairman, infact the whole lot stepped down, but i think the damage has been done.  O0

Anything verified on this situation?  Obviously the incident has caused a lot of consternation locally (and further afield), so some form of confirmation would be appreciated out in the sticks. ok2

Whilst the situation prevailed there was a groundswell of protest, but now that it appears to be resolved, the interest has waned. %)

So c'mon you local guys, let's have an update please, the issue went nationwide. O0

Yarpie.
Logged

Liverbudgie2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 108
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Earth.
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #122 on: April 30, 2011, 04:32:46 pm »

Workin'on it........
Logged

Yarpie

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #123 on: April 30, 2011, 04:49:12 pm »

Workin'on it........

Very many thanks Liverbudgie, good to see someone with finger on pulse. :-))

As somebody mentioned earlier, we cannot rely on the local or national Press now .......... the issue has allegedly been resolved, so "no further Press action necessary". ;) %) :} O0

Hope all is well in Scouseland, my club were going to put on an 18th Century square-rigger pyro display at Latitude 53 (Liverpool International Boat Show 2011, until it was cancelled) and would have been in your vicinity next weekend.

Regards,

Yarpie.
Logged

dave301bounty

  • Guest
Re: Steam boats banned
« Reply #124 on: April 30, 2011, 06:08:22 pm »


I have to apologise about the comments on the telly about steam boats giving off more oil than electric, i can't see that being a problem. The bloke interviewed, Mike Friend, is not a member of New Brighton' club and i can't think of the last time i saw him there! There's more to worry about than oil at the lake, it's filthy with swan s..te and anything else that would make your body parts drop off! :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
  looking back at this ,the other fool thought he would have more sense ,and he is your buddy ,,,,nough said ,even got it over here today at the Albert dock ,a couple of guys on big ships saw and heard .so there is now a big joke .
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.034 seconds with 21 queries.