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Author Topic: Which bilge pump?  (Read 5250 times)

Corposant

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Which bilge pump?
« on: July 05, 2011, 09:54:47 pm »

Having spent several hours trawling the forum and the Internet looking for a suitable bilge pump for my 1:32 scale Northlight Puffer, I pronounce myself confused!

Apart from home-made, the choices I have found appear to be:
          Graupner (Models GR1951, GR1952, GR1953 & Gr914 with prices ranging from £11.24 to £22.52)
          Robbe (Models R1568 @ £33, R1564 @ £34.59 & Unspecified @ £13.95 - all on Ebay)
          Hunter System's one @ £10.95, currently out of stock (Looks like a Robbe.)
          MFA650 (designed as a fuel pump and possibly no longer in production) £12.29 from Blackburn Model Supplies.

All the above have geared operation and claim to be self priming. It is going to be impossible to completely seal the decks but there should only be modest seepage (e.g. through holes where thread passes through) so, hopefully, she won't get swamped.

Any advice gratefully received!

Mike
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Patrick Henry

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 10:06:50 pm »

Halfords car screenwash pump?
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6705russell

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 10:14:10 pm »

Only problem with washer pumps is they fire the water out a metre from the side of the boat!  If you google maplins  they do an intermittent wiper circuit board which I use in conjuction with the pump, operates it every 2-10 seconds so gives a scale water dissipation from the boat...

Russ  
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andyn

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 10:21:32 pm »

Wouldn't it just be more obvious to stop the boat leaking?
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6705russell

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 10:42:23 pm »

Depends on the boat, in a couple of mine because of the scale the propshafts sit a couple of inches below the waterline it's inevitable that some water will leak in, when boats are worth a lot of money then fitting failsafes like bilge pumps isn't a big deal, also adds to the realism of seeing water coming out of the side of the hull...

Russ
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andyn

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 10:54:38 pm »

Depends on the boat, in a couple of mine because of the scale the propshafts sit a couple of inches below the waterline it's inevitable that some water will leak in

I run submarines, and all of the shafts are underwater all of the time.. I don't get a drop in...
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Corposant

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 11:02:29 pm »

U33

I had noted that several people had used screen wash pumps but thought that they would be a bit chunky to fit in a 1:32 hull - however, having looked at the picture on Halfords website, it looks most promising, so many thanks for the suggestion.

Russ

Thanks too for your help. I have been turning over in my mind the most appropriate flow rate. For the sort of amount I am anticipating, a "scale" output would be best - but, if a lot of water was shipped then one would want to get rid of it ASAP! Your suggestion of using the Maplin's board would mean I could experiment to my heart's content! Brilliant!

Mike
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Corposant

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2011, 11:19:59 pm »

Andy

You're absolutely right! The problem is that there are several holes for running threads to pass through. The biggest holes are in the base plate of the winch - two for threads and another for the vertical motor shaft.





Mike
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Corposant

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2011, 10:47:46 pm »

In my search for a suitable bilge pump, I followed the advice of U33 and 6705russell and embarked on a sortie to Halfords (5th July please note!)

There were probably only 3 or 4 models to choose from but previous customers had thoroughly mixed them up on 6 or 7 pegs so, after much rummaging , one was selected - on the basis of appearing to be the smallest (HWP16). Mrs Corposant, who happened to be present, sanctioned the outlay of £17.99. On arriving home, it ran well on 6v BUT was not self-priming! Much kicking of self over not concentrating on orientation of ports when making the selection! Not wishing to waste £18, the problem was handed over to the guy in the drawing office - who came up with the following:



The inlet nozzle was cut off and an acrylic scoop made to fit on the impeller.







This showed not the slightest hint of working. Thought "Oh bother!" (or something very similar). The chap in the drawing office got a right flea in his ear, I can tell you. His response was:



I.e. not trying to draw water in laterally but shove it upwards. It seemed simple enough - to make a single turn Archimedean screw by threading a disc onto a spiral of brass wire. An initial one, using a disc made from acrylic sheet, showed signs of working, so another was made using brass and soldered into place.





The disc is 5mm diameter.


After soldering


Drilled and tapped for inlet aperture disc.








This worked but only sometimes! Thought "Oh bother!" (or something very similar). Decided to try again, going up from 5mm to 10mm in diameter.




How on earth do you make a 10mm disc from sheet with only a 1.3mm hole in the middle? A 12 BA screw just sheared off as soon as the tool touched (by only 1 thou.) the edge of the roughly formed disc. (Same result on second try.) Thought "Oh bother!" (or something very similar). Ended up mounting it using a 12 BA tap.






5mm and 10mm versions.

Mounted on impeller.

In all this, I have spent infinitely more time making jigs than making impellers!

The 10mm impeller still didn't work reproducibly but seemed to indicate the knub of the problem: centrifugal force overtakes the upward thrust. So... glued a collar round the impeller. Performance much improved but now realised lack of reproducibility down to air locks forming in the outlet tubing. Cutting slots in the collar seems to allow sufficient water in to force them out.


Showing the slots.

Mounted on pump.


The three attempts.

All this has taken almost two months! (In between trying to resurrect the lawn and lay the base for Mrs Corposant's arbour.)

The main purpose of this post is to let you learn from my mistakes!

Mike
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irishcarguy

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 06:31:29 am »

This must be the most expensive bilge pump ever for a model boat. I really admire your perseverance, I my case the kitchen window would not have survived as the pump passed through it on the way out. Mick B.
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Mick B.

Corposant

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 10:08:06 am »

Mick

Certainly expensive in time! Most of the trouble is caused by the chap in the drawing office - he doesn't like to let go! The rest is down to the incompetence of the chap below him.

At regular intervals, along the line, I have been looking at the Hunter Systems website - where they show a purpose built jobbie for £10.95. It still says "Sorry out of stock. Due in week commencing 4th July." Very frustrating!

Mike
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HUNTER

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 10:31:42 am »

Mick

Certainly expensive in time! Most of the trouble is caused by the chap in the drawing office - he doesn't like to let go! The rest is down to the incompetence of the chap below him.

At regular intervals, along the line, I have been looking at the Hunter Systems website - where they show a purpose built jobbie for £10.95. It still says "Sorry out of stock. Due in week commencing 4th July." Very frustrating!

Mike
Sorry Mike, I have now got these back in stock once again, and I have updated the website. My memory is like a sieve at times!!
Graham
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Corposant

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2011, 03:04:30 pm »

Graham

"Memory like a sieve" - the chap in the drawing office knows the feeling well! Please don't tell me how long you've had them back in stock!

The final irony of this saga is that I have found that installing a collar (with slots) round the original acrylic "scoop" makes it work! I have let the chap in the drawing office know exactly what I think of him.

Another problem has arisen: the umpteen screwings on of my devices to the pump's impeller has stripped the 12 BA threaded hole I made in it. As it is made of polythene, no glue is going to help. The chap in the drawing office has thought of a solution to the problem but he's definitely out of favour at present - so you may well get an order!

Mike
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2011, 03:56:19 pm »

What about those Flight Box fuel pumps?
The gear type ones, they are self priming... can be a bit noisy though.

http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/1983_1_1027957.html
http://www.modelmaniacsonline.co.uk/products.php?ProductID=2639
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2011, 06:14:13 pm »

You could make a small bilge pump.
Have a look at some of the boiler feed pump designs
Regards,
Gerald.

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Corposant

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Re: Which bilge pump?
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2011, 08:29:16 pm »

Martin

Many thanks for your suggestion. (Would have preferred it back in July!) Suppliers seem reluctant to reveal dimensions and current draw but they appear to be very similar to a screen washer pump. I will certainly consider using one.

Gerald

That's an interesting thought. My slight reservation is that these pumps have a rather slow flow rate (for obvious reasons). Although the bilge pump will hopefully only have to cope with seepage, I was thinking of a significant flow rate to cater for emergencies. My pedanticism knows no bounds!

Having said that, it would just need to go very fast! So... I'll pass the idea on to the chap in the drawing office and see what he comes up with - when, that is we are on speaking terms again!

Many thanks for your idea.

Mike
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