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[n33h]

i bought this hull for £20, it had receiver, esc , motor, everything was there except a battery but everything looked so old, i'm not sure how old everything is so i'd like some help identifying things

1- does anyone know what the name of the hull is or even what its supposed to be ?? (its fibreglass with a 5mm ply deck and is heavy, looks like a riva to me but don't think it is)
2- i think its anb 850 size motor but could be wrong because of the age ?? (my friend thinks it could be a 600 size due to the age)
3- does anyone know anything about this esc, i don't think it works ?? (i have tried to find info on it with no luck, i think hunter systems is now affiliated with Mtroniks)

i think it used to be a pond basher (kids pay 10p or something for a few minutes sail around) because it had the number 3 on the transom/stern

my plan is to plank the hull and deck & turn it into a cabin cruiser type hull

[nhp651]

not wanting to be flippant or in any way derogatory your hull looks like any one of a hundred small plans that could be bought in the 1950/60/70's as what was called a "run about" and was for people to hone their basic skills in building hard chine models and was probably made from one of those hulls into a grp mould and moulding
You could make it into anything you want really.

As for the motor, I have a few similar in different casing sizes ranging from a 585, through bullet 600 to an 850, but not knowing it's physical size couldn't comment more than that...as for the speed controller..........never seen one like that befor, sorry.

just enjoy it for what it is, a hybrid, and build yourself a nice model without worrying too much about it's origins, so long as it all works.

neil.

[Paul S]

Can't help with the hull or motor, but I'll bet the speed control is based around the ZN409 servo chip given the relay for reverse.  Circuit was very common, I think the Electronize speed controller used it for one, not that this is an Electronize.  Can't see clearly but you probably have 2 trim pots for centring and full speed.  Have made numerous numbers of this type of speed controls, usually reliable, but others have blown them up.  Could possibly have an on the board 5V regulator to supply the receiver and servos. Probably need to delve a bit deeper, if it's what I think it is if you remove the case the chip should be marked and there will probably be one output FET transister.  If there is a second large flat 'transistor' that could be the voltage regulator. 

Cheers

Paul

[n33h]

thanks guys for your reply's there's no offence or anything taken by your comments, just like a bit of history on them, if the hulls made from plans back in the 50's etc then i have the perfect reciever setup from my uncle who bought it from beatties toy shop back in the 80's, i can make it look as period as i can then (i'll do some research for 70's/80's cabin cruisers)

its good to know that MAYBE someone took the trouble to build this hull from plans (my own little piece of history now)

i will try to take the esc apart (carefully) and see what i can find for reference points

the motor is 50mm (can diameter) x 70mm (can length) with what looks to be a 4/5mm shaft that extends both ends of the motor with maybe 10mm free shaft at both ends

[pompebled]

the motor is 50mm (can diameter) x 70mm (can length) with what looks to be a 4/5mm shaft that extends both ends of the motor with maybe 10mm free shaft at both ends

With those measurements it's most likely a short can 900 motor. (did you use callipers?)
I got one here and it's a 7 pole armature, with a Ø5 mm shaft.

I'd count the commuter elements to know how many poles it has and lightly(!) oil the bearing and see how it runs.

Regards, Jan.

[n33h]

thanks jan, i've cleaned and oiled the motor when i took it out for a look, i used my digital calipoers to find out the dimensions so there accurate, from what i've seen it looks like a 7 pole motor to me but will double check just to be sure

nick

[malcolmfrary]

Looking at the picture, the motor almost certainly will have been an "industrial pull" - ex of some sort of equipment.  As such, it will likely be better constructed than most model motors, but being pre-90s, might not have the advantages of more modern materials.  This will not stop it performing well, but it will be a good idea to check out how it performs with various batteries and props, since there is no easy way to tell what it was originally intended to do.  Probably intended for solid, rather than sparkling, performance.
Rather than trying to count commutator segments, I would just hold the motor shaft in a pair of grips, note the position of the tag with the red spot (providing my own if none existed) and gently rotate the can 360 degrees, counting the number of resistances to movement on the way round, then dividing by two.  This gives the number of poles, and the "steppiness" of the resistance gives some clue as to likely quality.  Unless its a skewed armature, intended for great smoothness, then all my bets are off.
Inside the ESC, apart from either an LM409 or an LM324 (quad op-amp used after 409s became unavailable, but before PICs became common), there should be a large transistor as the power out, connected between ground and a relay contact, a (probably smaller) transistor connected between ground and the relay coil, and maybe another three legged device with "7805" printed on it.  This last would be the voltage regulator for the BEC, but it would be a pleasant surprise to find one.  Most likely it would need either a separate receiver battery, a separate BEC, or the whole thing was intended for a 6 volt SLA.  You might find that, to discourage reverse engineering, the semiconductors have had their identities scraped off.

[n33h]

thankyou malcolm

i will pull the esc apart and see whats inside, might even post a photo of the inside for people to see, to assume its BEC enabled is wrong just because it has 3 wires for the receiver, i'm sure i have a bec somewhere but theres no signs on the esc to show an external BEC was used, i'll have my mate bring a 6v sla round to see if it ran on one of those

nick

[n33h]

as you can see from the photo (sorry its blurred) theres a large cylinder on the top right (with 6A10 on it)  various resistors, tranducers etc but a microchip with GPS ZN409CE 9544, on the relay (where the power/motor leads are ) it has 621D006 (also 9503 on it aswell)

if anyone can make any sense of all these numbers then please let me know (i suspect it may be a 10a esc)

also see the photo of the old futaba receiver that was in the boat, the pin board is different from todays (the pin board for the various connectors are all female instead of the usual male) but still runs on FM 27mhz crystals

[malcolmfrary]

The black cylinder is the back EMF protection diode that stops high voltage coming back from the motor getting into the rest of the system.  The black end will connect to the main drive transistor, the silver end to the big red wire.  The same printed circuit lands will go to the relay contacts.
The two black devices bottom right will probably be the transistors I mentioned - following the tracks should show, knowing what the printing on the PCB alongside them would help.  Not too sure what the two white devices above them are, again, knowing what the printing says would help.
Guessing at the age, a 10A controller would put it at the top of the range back then, so its probably a safe bet.  The lack of a BEC would be a safe bet, as well.  Easiest way to check is to connect a battery (more than 5v) to the large red and black wires, and check to see if you get 5 volts on the small red and black.  A small caveat - back then, when mechanical controls were the norm, many otherwise clever people carried on not bothering to differentiate between "battery" connections and "motor" connections.  This usually led to disaster, and the replacement of transistors and the protection diode, assuming that the printed circuit survived.
Since the pinouts of the radio are in the right order, if spaced a little differently, you can make up your own pins using tinned copper wire and a little care.  The downside is that connections made like that will need some extra help to make sure that they stay connected.  An old radio might not play nicely in company with newer products in the same band.  Newer ones have tighter control over transmission frequency, receivers are more selective about what they receive.  This means that you and another user on adjacent bands might well suffer mutual interference.  Operationally, new gear in this area makes a lot of sense at the expense of period authenticity.

[n33h]

thankyou again for all your input malcolm

i'm going to be using modern tech inside the hull anyway, just like to know what i'm dealing with

again thankyou

[Paul S]

Hi there.

Receiver is an early FM 'M-Series' circa early 80's.  Has the original M-Series female socket, these had their servos centred on 1.3ms.  Changed to the now universal 1.5ms once they adopted the current plug standard.  When these FM receivers first came out you could send off your old AM M-series and get it fitted with new PCB's to get it upgraded to FM.  Remember buying up a load of the old AM boards at the Sandown Park show, think they were 50p each,  just needed a crystal socket and some leads and of you went.  Cheap source of receivers when times were hard, still have a few knocking about now and still work fine.  Speed control is indeed one of the many 409 variants.  The ones I've made use the BUK555-60B FET and LM2940CT (low voltage drop out) regulator.  'Servo' lead feeds the 5v to the rest of the installation.  Still have a supply of ZN409's tucked away, so usefull and easy to use. 

Cheers

Paul

[n33h]

thanks paul, all these things are bit before my time, i was still a nipper in the 80's

after testing the circuits with my circuit tester, i have discovered the rely is'nt working, powers going in one side but not coming out the other side and i'm no good at soldering

[Paul S]

Rather odd, the relay side of things doesn't usually give problems.  Remember the relay will only operate when you move the stick to reverse.  Put a voltmeter across he relay coil terminals and see if you get a voltage reading when you move the stick.  The possibility is that the relay has been overloaded and the contacts have fused together.  Even then you will usually get the motor to run in one direction.   In case you are unfamiliar withe these controllers, there is usually one trim pot to set the centre off point and one trim pot to adjust for full speed when the stick is all the way forward.

Cheers

Paul

[malcolmfrary]

the rely is'nt working, powers going in one side but not coming out the other side

A bit of clarification needed here, is the relay not operating (moving its contacts and going "click") or are the contacts not passing current?
With the power off, 1 - does the relay coil measure about 80ohms? (fairly common value)
                             2 - do the lever (usually center, sometimes marked as "C/O") springs measure zero ohms to their respective break (NC) springs?
If 1 is true, the coil is OK and the relay should be able to switch contacts over.
If 2 is true, there is a path for the two sides of the motor to be offered to the positive line and the output transistor, whatever the output transistor tells the motor to do should produce a response by the motor.