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[oiler]

I started to get back to my 4 year and counting steam boat project. I bought all the fittings from PM Research and they work great but the steam regulator valve I got from mainsteam MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator does not seem to work right. The problem I'm having is it does not shut off the steam completely only partially. I know some here may have used one of these and I was wondering if you've had the same problems. I have tried to contact the manufacturer about it but have not received any response.

Here are some pictures of what I'm talking about.

[derekwarner]

Hullo oiler........very nice looking equipment & professional setup......   but a few questions.....

1. are the elbow's & tee pieces for 1/8" OD tube? ....or are they screwed?...as it appears with TEFLON tape?
2. did you buy them as the CHRISTMAS tree of castings from PM? ...I think our member Bernhard uses the same fittings in his open boat steam setups.........
3. I see the Winfried Niggle quartz tubed lubricator......he manufactures excellent components  
4. Is it a water pump on the output shaft end of the engine?
5. What is the yellow solenoid device with PINK wiring connected to the pump?
6. I have no experience with your MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator ...however would be inclined to attempt continued dialogue with the manufacturer as I am sure the design must be to provide total isolation  

Keep us posted with more snaps as you progress..........   .....Derek

[oiler]

Hullo oiler........very nice looking equipment & professional setup......   but a few questions.....

1. are the elbow's & tee pieces for 1/8" OD tube? ....or are they screwed?...as it appears with TEFLON tape?
2. did you buy them as the CHRISTMAS tree of castings from PM? ...I think our member Bernhard uses the same fittings in his open boat steam setups.........
3. I see the Winfried Niggle quartz tubed lubricator......he manufactures excellent components  
4. Is it a water pump on the output shaft end of the engine?
5. What is the yellow solenoid device with PINK wiring connected to the pump?
6. I have no experience with your MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator ...however would be inclined to attempt continued dialogue with the manufacturer as I am sure the design must be to provide total isolation  

Keep us posted with more snaps as you progress..........   .....Derek

Hey Derek

I used PM's 1/4 inch piping with pre-machined fittings and the white stuff is thread sealant is also from PM and works very well.
The displacement lubricator is from Winfried Niggle and looks nice but I had to re-solder the bottom of it because it leaked.
Yes that is a water pump and the other water pumps eccentric is in the front of that which feeds into the solenoid. The solenoid is connected to a modified automatic sight glass unit I got from maidstone I do believe. Works very well but I need to tweek it some more with a timer that allows the solenoid to stay on for 10 or 15 seconds once triggered because it just flickers the solenoid when the boiler sloshes around.

As far as the steam regulator valve goes...
I took it apart and was not impressed from what I seen. The design is simplistic and could have been thought out a little better. I ended up lapping the faces of the two parts that are supposed to seal. It helped but I may have to do it some more and maybe put a heavier spring in it to hold the two pieces together. When I take it apart again I'll take some pictures to show what I'm speaking about.

[derekwarner]

  ...that is disappointing oiler  about the  MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator   ...and also the issue with the Niggle lubricator........did you contact Winfried?.....

I have two Niggle lubricators.....& don't understand where it could did it leak from? & the need to re-solder?.... in your snaps I cannot see the lubricator base plate or style......

In my collection of steam bits...   I also have an un-commissioned ACS Engineering steam regulator.....I can confirm ZERO bypass @ 6 Bar to full flow during testing...it's a bit chunky @ 3/4" cube...but the flow increase is so smooooooooooooooth

Again keep us posted with your progress & would be interested in the internals of the ..............MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator   .........Derek  

[oiler]

...that is disappointing oiler  about the  MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator   ...and also the issue with the Niggle lubricator........did you contact Winfried?.....

I have two Niggle lubricators.....& don't understand where it could did it leak from? & the need to re-solder?.... in your snaps I cannot see the lubricator base plate or style......

In my collection of steam bits...   I also have an un-commissioned ACS Engineering steam regulator.....I can confirm ZERO bypass @ 6 Bar to full flow during testing...it's a bit chunky @ 3/4" cube...but the flow increase is so smooooooooooooooth

Again keep us posted with your progress & would be interested in the internals of the ..............MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator   .........Derek  

The lubricator I have is like the one on the left most in your picture. If you look at the bottom you will see the bottom is actually two pieces. There is the base plate and the cylinder peice that the valve handle screws into.

Do you have a website for your steam regulator? Also notice about the lubricator that I'm not really sure it's using any oil when I'm running my engine. I know steam is getting into it but I don't think it's pushing oil out to the engine. I have the adjustment wheel screwed out quit a bit. The steam oil I'm using is older so maybe it thickened up not sure.

[derekwarner]

oiler..... I can see steam condensate drops on the inner lubricator quartz tube.....but cannot see any steam oil in the tube 

Your Niggle lubricator has the adjustable needle valve @ the top to meter the oil flow.........essentially to conserve expensive steam oil 

Without any real experience in understanding the method of determining a nominal flow......I chose the fixed orifice version...& will rely on the calculations by Winfried.....

Steam oil should not breakdown with age  .....but considering the cost of our engines we should ensure the correct quantity of oil is getting into the engine etc

My ACS Engineering components [boiler, regulator de-oiler etc] ............ were purchased in 2005 - ACS Engineering [Scotland] has since ceased trading.....................his home page was removed from the WEB many years ago

I did a GOOGLE search on MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator ...& found another WEB site where you had posted similar images ....then Q&A on the same issue

Each to his own......but if I had an issue with the lubricator or the steam regulator leaking or not working I would take it up with the manufacturer.........Derek

[oiler]

oiler..... I can see steam condensate drops on the inner lubricator quartz tube.....but cannot see any steam oil in the tube 

Your Niggle lubricator has the adjustable needle valve @ the top to meter the oil flow.........essentially to conserve expensive steam oil 

Without any real experience in understanding the method of determining a nominal flow......I chose the fixed orifice version...& will rely on the calculations by Winfried.....

Steam oil should not breakdown with age  .....but considering the cost of our engines we should ensure the correct quantity of oil is getting into the engine etc

My ACS Engineering components [boiler, regulator de-oiler etc] ............ were purchased in 2005 - ACS Engineering [Scotland] has since ceased trading.....................his home page was removed from the WEB many years ago

I did a GOOGLE search on MMR01 R/C Rotary Slide Valve Regulator ...& found another WEB site where you had posted similar images ....then Q&A on the same issue

Each to his own......but if I had an issue with the lubricator or the steam regulator leaking or not working I would take it up with the manufacturer.........Derek

I've sent two emails to him and no reply so I'll take it up with the people who may have purchased it and may have experienced the same thing I am. I posted the topic here and on the other forum because not everyone hangs out on one or the other so I posted on both. I did send an email to Winfried and did get a reply but he didn't understand and wanted pictures... I decided not to go back and forth and instead just fix it so I can move on. Just wish it was tested before sending it out on both parts.

The adjuster on the lubracator is turned all the way out so it should be using oil and it's not. I have a 30 gal drum of steam oil left over from when I ran my large guage Locos in Phoenix so actually it doesn't really cost that much if you buy it in large batches. The fact that it contains tallow and believe or not some regular motor oils have a shelf like of 5 years.

[Circlip]

The colour options on the message box must be one of the most STUPID options available Obviously UNDERLINING and bolding are not enough for some. Unfortunately the arty farty rainbow renderings exhibited by some make it impossible to read the text due to colourblindness, contrast settings or WHATEVER

  Use of the spile chunk button is a mystery to some so I suppose the Van Gough renderings of text should be the norm?

  Regards  Ian.

[kiwimodeller]

Is there a right and a wrong way to connect the steam valve up? I had a similar problem with a different brand of regulator and was told that by reversing the connections the steam pressure helped hold the valve against the face instead of trying to lift the valve off the face. Swapped the pipes around and hey presto - no more problem. Might be worth a try. Cheers, Ian.

[kno3]

[...] The displacement lubricator is from Winfried Niggle and looks nice but I had to re-solder the bottom of it because it leaked.
[...]

Strange to hear that happen. I have am using Niggel's lubricators too (with the same bottom drain valve) and never had a problem. Why didn't you send it back to him for repair or replacement? He's a very forthcoming person.

[oiler]

Strange to hear that happen. I have am using Niggel's lubricators too (with the same bottom drain valve) and never had a problem. Why didn't you send it back to him for repair or replacement? He's a very forthcoming person.

I have a very limited amount of time to work on my hobbies so instead of sending it all the way back to Germany and waiting for another 10 days to receive one I just re-soldered the base of it. The fix only took about 10 minutes after I took it off. The lubricator does not leak anymore after the fix but now I'm wondering if it's actually working. I have it adjusted at maximum flow but do not see it using any oil. I know it's not clogged because I can open the filler plug and turn the steam back on and hear the steam in the lubricator.

Since you have one can you tell me how long the oil lasts in yours?

[ooyah/2]

   
Re: mainsteam steam regulator valve problems
« Reply #7 on: Today at 10:27:52 AM »
   Reply with quote
The colour options on the message box must be one of the most STUPID options available Obviously UNDERLINING and bolding are not enough for some. Unfortunately the arty farty rainbow renderings exhibited by some make it impossible to read the text due to colourblindness, contrast settings or WHATEVER

  Use of the spile chunk button is a mystery to some so I suppose the Van Gough renderings of text should be the norm?

  Regards  Ian.
Circlip,
I couldn't agree with you more, some of the postings are like a Walt Disney cartoon.
These posters I assume are intelligent adults, some with a Naval background.
I wonder if they would post a report to their superiors in this ridiculous manner.
I must say that I no longer read these postings as not only is it an insult to my intelligence but also sets the poster up to ridicule.
George.

[kno3]

I have a very limited amount of time to work on my hobbies so instead of sending it all the way back to Germany and waiting for another 10 days to receive one I just re-soldered the base of it. The fix only took about 10 minutes after I took it off. The lubricator does not leak anymore after the fix but now I'm wondering if it's actually working. I have it adjusted at maximum flow but do not see it using any oil. I know it's not clogged because I can open the filler plug and turn the steam back on and hear the steam in the lubricator.

Since you have one can you tell me how long the oil lasts in yours?

In my identical Niggel oiler, the oil lasts quite a lot, as the capacity is quite large. Several boiler fills (2-4) at any rate, but I have never measured this. I can see through the glass that my oiler is working: water droplets sink slowly and gather at the bottom. There's also oily residue in the condenser after a run.
You can see my oiler here, fitted to a Cheddar engine, and the water at the bottom of the glass tube:

2009-10-10 005 by -kno3-, on Flickr

I'm not sure what could be wrong with your installation, but knowing the quality of Niggel's products for quite some time now, I doubt the fault lies with the oiler. Make sure there is nothing clogging the pipes (even partially, such as dirt, bits of solder, Teflon band if you used any on the threads).
Was it filled with oil up to the level of the upper needle valve when you steamed the engine?

Another way to check whether the oiler is working (besides watching it fill with water) is to disconnect the exhaust from the condenser and let the engine exhaust the steam onto a paper towel or similar. You should get see traces of oil there.

[oiler]

In my identical Niggel oiler, the oil lasts quite a lot, as the capacity is quite large. Several boiler fills (2-4) at any rate, but I have never measured this. I can see through the glass that my oiler is working: water droplets sink slowly and gather at the bottom. There's also oily residue in the condenser after a run.
You can see my oiler here, fitted to a Cheddar engine, and the water at the bottom of the glass tube:

2009-10-10 005 by -kno3-, on Flickr

I'm not sure what could be wrong with your installation, but knowing the quality of Niggel's products for quite some time now, I doubt the fault lies with the oiler. Make sure there is nothing clogging the pipes (even partially, such as dirt, bits of solder, Teflon band if you used any on the threads).
Was it filled with oil up to the level of the upper needle valve when you steamed the engine?

Another way to check whether the oiler is working (besides watching it fill with water) is to disconnect the exhaust from the condenser and let the engine exhaust the steam onto a paper towel or similar. You should get see traces of oil there.

Yeah I think I try the paper idea. The stock Hemmens lubricator didn't last long (about a 1/2 hour is all) so I'm got used to that much oil being used. I agree that Niggel makes nice stuff and is why I purchased the item from him. I used to manufacture electronic items and sometimes things got past quality control as well. I'm not angry at either manufacture I just thought somebody else may have experienced the same issues and might have a suggestion on how to fix them.

I'll try the paper idea because I'm not seeing any real oil out of the condenser. I've ran for about 11/2 hours so far and the oil is starting to turn to a lighter color. I've been shutting down the engine every 15 minutes and adding oil manually to the engine not the lubricator.

BTW nice engine!

[oiler]

Is there a right and a wrong way to connect the steam valve up? I had a similar problem with a different brand of regulator and was told that by reversing the connections the steam pressure helped hold the valve against the face instead of trying to lift the valve off the face. Swapped the pipes around and hey presto - no more problem. Might be worth a try. Cheers, Ian.

Thanks kiwi,
Yep I tried both ways just to make sure but I have it hooked the way mainsteam's web site says to do it now and still doesn't work right. It kind of works but not like a valve should.

[oiler]

I got it to work! Thank you for all of your replies and ideas.

I lapped both parts to a mirror like finish and added a light spring from a ball point pen. I works great now.

As far as the lubricator... I found some packing that is used on the valve stuck inside the outlet. Once removed it works great as well.

Thank again.  

[derekwarner]

Well oiler....this is good news....on both counts  ...from your photographs...the steam regulator is before the lubricator....so you may need to consider a replacement stainless steel compression spring for the regulator ....

It certainly didn't make any sense that Winfried lubricator did not work.  .........Derek

[oiler]

Well oiler....this is good news....on both counts  ...from your photographs...the steam regulator is before the lubricator....so you may need to consider a replacement stainless steel compression spring for the regulator ....

It certainly didn't make any sense that Winfried lubricator did not work.  .........Derek

Yep I did at first have the lubricator after the regulator so I switched it around after the pictures were taken. I'll post more pictures after it's done.

[mainsteam]

Looking at the photographs, and it is a very nice looking steam plant, but I see that the slide valve regulator is not only in the steam feed BEFORE the lubricator, but it appears to be piped the wrong way round also. These regulators are a simple slide valve type & require steam pressure to hold the valve on the port face - the spring is only there to hold the valve against the port when steam pressure is low - I find it odd that you post on here your problems, but didn't communicate with me first - ????
So just turn it round, piping steam into the inlet nearest the front & put it in the steam circuit AFTER the displacement lubricator.
These slide valves pass a little steam when closed, but not enough to start the engine under a realistic load - this is good, as it keeps the cylinders warm - !
Regards,
Keith Appleton
MainSteam