Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[Colin Bishop]

Following Liverbudgie's comment on another thread the other day I contacted the Science Museum to ask what was happening about the maritime collections and it is indeed the case that they are being closed in February and the models put into storage. An extract from the Curator of Transport's reply is given below.

To say that this is a tragedy is putting it mildly although it has to be acknowledged that the way in which the models are currently presented is not attracting much public interest. Whenever I visit, which is maybe three times a year, there are only perhaps two or three people looking at the displays when the Space Gallery below is packed out.

I can understand the Museum wanting to make better use of the space but it does seem a shame that not even a core display of the better exhibits will be on view in the future. Just another example of the Country turning its back on its maritime heritage. It's all very well saying that the models will still be available to researchers but the fact remains that they will be removed from the public view and awareness and that cannot be a good thing.

I don't know why the Science Museum opted out of the Chatham Models Project to provide a national repository for historic models but maybe this was not a good move in retrospect.

Colin

*********************************

From the Curator of Transport, London Science Museum.

Our current plans are to close the Ships galleries in early summer next year so that they can be cleared to make space for a major new permanent gallery on the history of communications opening in 2014.
 
The ship models, once removed, will be housed in our storage facilities in West London (near Kensington Olympia) and Wiltshire (near Swindon) and, as with all our reserve collections, will be accessible to anyone who wishes to see them for research or study by appointment (although in the case of the ship models there will be a delay of one year between their arrival in store and their accessibility for study as they acclimatise to the change in humidity and temperature in special sealed transit crates).
 
Owing to the breadth of the subjects we cover (across science, technology, industry, medicine and engineering), and the length of time we have been collecting (some 150 years) our collections are huge and we only have space in the museum itself to display about five to ten per cent of them. We therefore have a long-term plan to bring new collections and subjects out from storage to replace older displays. In this case, our communications collection currently in storage is highly important and the Ships galleries, installed in the early 1960s, are now the oldest unmodified gallery displays in the museum.
 
I do sincerely regret the disappointment caused when we close galleries, but we have to seek a balance between maintaining existing displays and creating new ones. It is a difficult balance to strike but in providing research study facilities at our stores for all our reserve collections, we do maintain public access to the collections, and hope that we can thus enable the continuing study of this heritage while offering new historic displays in the museum for our visitors.
Our current plans are to close the Ships galleries in early summer next year so that they can be cleared to make space for a major new permanent gallery on the history of communications opening in 2014.
 
The ship models, once removed, will be housed in our storage facilities in West London (near Kensington Olympia) and Wiltshire (near Swindon) and, as with all our reserve collections, will be accessible to anyone who wishes to see them for research or study by appointment (although in the case of the ship models there will be a delay of one year between their arrival in store and their accessibility for study as they acclimatise to the change in humidity and temperature in special sealed transit crates).
 
Owing to the breadth of the subjects we cover (across science, technology, industry, medicine and engineering), and the length of time we have been collecting (some 150 years) our collections are huge and we only have space in the museum itself to display about five to ten per cent of them. We therefore have a long-term plan to bring new collections and subjects out from storage to replace older displays. In this case, our communications collection currently in storage is highly important and the Ships galleries, installed in the early 1960s, are now the oldest unmodified gallery displays in the museum.
 
I do sincerely regret the disappointment caused when we close galleries, but we have to seek a balance between maintaining existing displays and creating new ones. It is a difficult balance to strike but in providing research study facilities at our stores for all our reserve collections, we do maintain public access to the collections, and hope that we can thus enable the continuing study of this heritage while offering new historic displays in the museum for our visitors.

[joppyuk]

So are we to assume that, basically, as far as 99.9% of the general public are concerned this collection will disappear from view?  What are the chances of the Museum publishing a list/catalogue similar to the one the NMM had some years ago , but preferably with illustrations (I still use my copy as a reference occassionaly). It would help pacify us, and produce income for the museum.

[Colin Bishop]

I think that is the correct assumption. I haven't yet responded to the Curator. I do have a catalogue of the merchant ship models which was originally published in 1948/49 and subsequently revised which I bought in the early 1970s.

I believe that the NMN is documenting ahnd photographing their models as they are transferred to Chatham but I'm not sure how far that process has got. I do have a good contact at Chatham and will make some enquoiries next week.

It does rather seem that the Science Museum has rather given up on its maritime collections which to me seems to be a dereliction of duty on the part of a national museum. The National Maritime Museum dumbed down their model collections years ago in an attempt to increase footfall. The Imperial War Museum has managed the process rather better but a lot of fantastic models have vanished, hopefully to reappear at Chatham.

Colin

[tobyker]

So if anyone wants to see a model of a Thames Hoy, they'll have to come and look at mine. (Unless anyone knows of another model of one.)

[bobk]

Sadly this seems the fate of most of our nations historic ship models, filed away in "Warehouse 13".  There used to be a wonderful collection at the IWM, most of which has been dispersed to non-public access storage in locations such as Chatham & Greenwich.  How is one supposed to research a ship build when even curators are hard to access and so called search facilities on their web sites are close to useless.

I am still trying to track down a wonderful shipwrights model of a WW1 submarine that that had pride of place in Lambeth. 
No luck to date, they might as well be in Area 51   

[Colin Bishop]

Yes. National Museums should have a duty to retain historical material but their priorities are now to get people through the door together with their ice cream and candyfloss.

Just dumbing down unfortunately.

Colin

[Wetwater]

   The Science Museum storage facility at Swindon, ex RAF Wroughton, used to be open to the public 2 or 3 times a year.
   Not very convenient to get to for most people, but well worth the trip for those that could.  A long time since my last visit.

   Hangers crammed with almost everything imaginable, some nicely ! displayed, but most shoe horned in.  Not sure, but I
   believe that there are plans to re open at certain times, but as has been said, at the present only accessable for research
   by appointment.

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, there is still public access by appointment but that is a very poor substitute for general display of the models. The Museum simply no longer regards our maritime history of any real importance anymore which I find desperately sad.

Colin

[essex2visuvesi]

So the beautifuly hand crafted boats will be replaced with sinclair spectrums and mobile phones?

A sad sad say :(

[phoniex]

their priorities are now to get people through the door together with their ice cream and candyfloss.

Just dumbing down unfortunately.

Colin

I have been told its the same as the new Glasgow transport museum.  All the ships that were on display in the Clyde built room, are gone only a fraction of what was there. And what is there you would need a ladder to see them  as they are behind a glass wall and what I have been told are flying through the air on diffrent hights.  And the other display is on a merry go around. So for a person to just look and admire the models it's impossible. 

[funtimefrankie]

I was in there about a year ago, it was a t like walking round a chapel of rest.

Mind you rhe Stowger telephone exchange exhibit was in a poor state too, so maybe it will get a breath of new life........

[Spook]

When I was a boy (too long ago to remember) Cardiff museum had a stunning display of model ships. Went there with Little Spook on an edukashunal visit a coule of years back... nary a one to be seen. Loads of really crap dinosaurs and some rocks but precious little else. It's no wonder they stopped charging for entry - probably too embarrassed to ask for money. 

[brianB6]

What about putting pressure on the Chatham Dockyard to open a model gallery?
At least display H.M.S. Vanguard.   She was always the first ship I looked for when I visited the Science Museum.

[Colin Bishop]

What about putting pressure on the Chatham Dockyard to open a model gallery?

You are probably unaware that Chatham has recently completed a long term project to house the models formerly kept in storage by the National Maritime Museum and Imperial War Museum. It is called the No 1 Smithery and I reported on the opening ceremony for Model Boats magazine last year. More information here: http://www.thedockyard.co.uk/NetsiteCMS/pageid/918/no1smithery.html The Science Museum was involved in early discussions on this project but for some reason elected not to participate.

The plan at Chatham is to rotate a selection of models on public display and make the rest of the collection open to researchers only as they are held in climate controlled conditions.

Chatham still have their own museum with many warship models on display including all the ships of the Battle of th River Plate.

Colin

[brianB6]

That's good to know.
I am not sure if I will get back to Blighty again but if I do I will make a point of visiting Chatham especially since it is not far from my cousin in Maidstone.
I suppose since the Science Museum was not involved there is no chance of the Vanguard being on display. 

[Colin Bishop]

There is a model of Vanguard in the RN Museum at Portsmouth although I don't know if it is always on display - see below.

There is another cutaway model in the collection at the Britannia Royal Naval College at Dartmouth, see here: http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article.asp?a=4501

I also did a report on Chatham Dockyard a while back before the No 1 Smithery was opened, see here: http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article.asp?a=4651

The Southampton Maritime Museum which also has a great collection of models is due to close in its present historic premises shortly with a new museum featuring the Titanic being opened adjacent to the Civic Centre. Just how much of the present collections will make it into the new venue I don't know. For report on the existing museum see here: http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article.asp?a=7072

Colin

[Tankerman]

I have been told its the same as the new Glasgow transport museum.  All the ships that were on display in the Clyde built room, are gone only a fraction of what was there. And what is there you would need a ladder to see them  as they are behind a glass wall and what I have been told are flying through the air on diffrent hights.  And the other display is on a merry go around. So for a person to just look and admire the models it's impossible. 

Spook, the models that were at Cardiff museum have suffered the same fate as those in Glasgow, they are now stuck on a wall at the end of the Swansea museum. I went there just after the museum had re-opened following its "modernisation" specifically to see the model of the "Esso Pembroke" that had been beautifully displayed in Cardiff. There it was, halfway up the bl**dy wall and all I could see was the underwater form of the hull. The rest of the room was full of "touch-screen crap" designed to amuse the "crisp and fizzy drink plebs" for a couple of seconds.

Chris

[Philipsparker]

Yes, there is still public access by appointment but that is a very poor substitute for general display of the models. The Museum simply no longer regards our maritime history of any real importance anymore which I find desperately sad.

To be fair, it no longer considers the exhibits they have as worthy of display space as something else. Having been around there I have a little sympathy with this as the place does have the air of a mauseleum. There are some very nice models, but should we ignore the other important science to display them ? It's not like the museum is blessed with infinite space. I can see the argument that telecomunications have a huge impact on the world, and we should be just as proud of them as we are of our maritime heritage. After all, those ZX Spectrums gave us the current breed of computer programmers and then there is the British invention of the World Wide Web to consider which I understand is very popular with the kids...

The one model I would be sad to see the end of is that showing London's docks. To me it has the greatest claim to space in a London based museum of anything there. But is it science ?

Which brings me on to a solution - since this must be the most valuable museum space in the UK, if not the world (Kensington ? Not a cheap area), why does it all have to be in London ? The National Railway Museum was very sensibly shifted up north to York and now has it's own outstation at Shildon. Why isn't the whole lot shipped (no pun intended) to Greenwich. Or even one of the places these things were built and could probably do with an influx of visitors ? Why does it have to be in London ?

[phoniex]

I went there just after the museum had re-opened following its "modernisation" specifically to see the model of the "Esso Pembroke" that had been beautifully displayed in Cardiff. There it was, halfway up the bl**dy wall and all I could see was the underwater form of the hull. The rest of the room was full of "touch-screen 'rubbish'" designed to amuse the "crisp and fizzy drink plebs" for a couple of seconds.

Chris

Thats what Glasgow is like, it's a real crime what they are doing. I guess if you like looking at bottom the hulls of various ships.
 I feel bad for the next generation of kids, who won't be able to enjoy the real workmanship of the builders models.

[Colin Bishop]

I would agree that the Science Museum ships displays are desperately outdated and they do take up an inordinate amount of room which cannot really be justified in this day and age. What puzzles me is that they have not really been updated in some 50 years, the captions are very limited and don't catch the imagination. A smaller but more lively display with regular rotation of exhibits might have been a viable alternative, such as the Maritime Treasures display at Chatham. At least it maintains a degree of public awareness. I wonder just how many people these days are aware of the huge model collections held by the NMM and IWM. A real case of out of sight, out of mind and possibly lost forever. Most of those models at the Science Museum will never be seen in public again. maybe they will eventually be sold off.

I just hope that with the replacement displays the Science Museum doesn't dumb down in the way the NMM has, it's a very disappointing place to visit now. The IWM has done rather better and they are are really pushed for space in London although they have some good models aboard HMS Belfast and of course the big aviation outpost at Duxford.

Then you have the Royal Naval Museum at Portsmouth and of course the new and old model galleries at Chatham so by no means everything is in London. But it does seem rather odd that it looks as if the Science museum will have trains, aircraft, cars and rockets - but no ships in future.

Colin

[tony52]

Colin,
When I was a youngster many years ago, my father sometimes took me to Bury museum (North Manchester), to look at two shipbuilders models which were displayed at the time. As a young lad I was in awe at the sight of these two masterpieces. At that time I was probably in to building airfix kits. OK Bury is not the most maritime of towns, but the sight of these models on display still sticks to this day. Your post is highlighting the fact that the opportunity is being taken away from the boys of today, who would show an interest in model ships.

As for the two shipbuilders models, they were moved to the North East near to where the vessels were built.

Only my thoughts (and memories).
Tony.

[victorian]

A truly apalling piece of news Colin.

I've been there a couple of times to study the Fairfield built model of "Diadem" for my "Niobe" project. The "Diadem" model in particular is neglected, with only one of the two flourescents in the case working, so this development is hardly a surprise. There can hardly be anyone left in the museum trade who knows what shipbuilding is, or was, in the days when we built most of the world's tonnage.

Since these ships are now going to dissapear from view I for one will make further efforts to capture them in pictures. For instance, there's "Campania" and the little cruiser "Marathon". At least you don't (yet) get thrown out of the Science Museum for producing a camera, unlike the awful NMM.

Here's "Diadem" as she appears, for the moment. She's a treasure trove of information that you can't get from photos or indeed the Admiralty drawings.

[Colin Bishop]

Tony, yes, if the models are not on display then for most people they will cease to exist and will not capture the imagination of youngsters or anyone else for that matter.

Victorian, I agree, you can get information from a model that is simply no longer obtainable anywhere else. many drawings just show the outline of fittings such as winches and deck gear with no detail. You would have gone to the  (no non existent) manufacturers for that sort of stuff. On these big models you can see all the workings in perfect detail.

Back in the Summer I spent an hour in the gallery just photographing the  liner Arandora Star as I am building a model of one of her sister ships, the Almeda. Although the Arandora Star was extensively rebuilt for cruising there is still a huge amount of invaluable detail which is applicable to her original appearance, especially around the bridgework and funnels etc. I even lay down on the floor at one stage to get a particular view of the propellers and rudder and nobody batted an eyelid.

I have asked th curator for permission to take some more photos of my favourite models using a tripod before they all disappear. We shall see what he says.

Colin

[Bowwave]

It saddens me but does not surprise me that the Science Museum is closing its maritime display.  By contrast  Merseyside Maritime Museum  ,Newcastle Discovery Museum and  Glasgow Museum of Transport   retain  many of their great ship  models  but in order to do so   have been forced   to move with the times and display in a more imaginative way.  Why this can't be done by the London Science Museum is open to question. Glasgow's new “Museum of Transport” is a good example of this and like the MMM has the facilities to rotate from their large depositories models for display as and when the need arises. The point being if a collection is not attracting the number it should then it is no longer doing its job and that is to inform and have meaning and the legitimate question is “why” .  Recently I visited the new Riverside Museum   { museum of Transport  in Glasgow} Although  not all was perfect regarding the model displays, far from it ,yet   there was no denying  that the imaginative way the displays where presented is achieving the result of attracting the viewing public  in greater numbers than the Clyde Room  could ever do and I have visited the Clyde Room many times .   Over the past days I  attended the Mersey River Festival and the Merseyside Maritime Museum and all of the areas  used for the display of  ship models  attracted a constant flow of interest from the visiting public.  Collections and displays can not remain “set in stone” they have to change and more frequently ,if they don’t they will, sadly fall into decline and cease to have any real meaning  to the viewing public and  perhaps   the Science Museum  maritime display is an example of this .
Bowwave

[Talisman]

 Recently I visited the new Riverside Museum   { museum of Transport  in Glasgow} Although  not all was perfect regarding the model displays, far from it ,yet   there was no denying  that the imaginative way the displays where presented is achieving the result of attracting the viewing public  in greater numbers than the Clyde Room  could ever do and I have visited the Clyde Room many times .   Bowwave

I agree Bowwave, and have said so on another forum. It's not the way i'd like to have seen them displayed but not everybody is a model maker. The fact that they remain on display and the encouraging visitor numbers since opening has got to be a good thing.... the difficulty will probably come in sustaining the visitor numbers and rotation of the displays has surely got to be at the front of those responsible thoughts. So perhaps there will be more to see in Glasgow in the future...

To get rid of all models well that isn't  great for the passing on of history etc and not great for our small hobby's future...
Regards,
Kim