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[Muleears]

I'm new to steam but not modelling and I have a question about mounting the motor I have in my project boat.  I am needing some ideas on how others have done it.  I have no clubs near me so no source of other boats to look at.  I will be mounting a PM Research 8M (V twin) in an African Queen. I've included a pic of what I'm up against.  I would appreciate if others could post some pics of your motor set ups.  I think with some ideas I could fabricate something of my own.  In the pic I have just set the decking in for illustrative purposes.  Thanks for any advice you have to offer.

[kiwimodeller]

Muleears, that is a quite a large engine for the size of the hull which will drive it very easily. I try and mount my engines vertical by fitting a double universal joint. If there is not room to do that then you need to align the crankshaft with the propshaft and the best way to do this if you have access to a lathe is to make a solid steel shaft the same length as the universal. Bore one end to fit the crankshaft and the other to fit the propshaft. Now you can hold the engine aligned while you shape wooden bearers to fit under the engine. Which ever method you use shape the bearers and then put engine mounting screws through from the bottom of the bearers. Countersink the heads in place flush with the bottom and put a bit of epoxy on each screw as you put it in place. With the engine on the bearers and the dummy aligner holding things in line epoxy the bearers to the hull. As the PM motor has three mount holes you will either have to make a "U" shaped mount or a third short bearer. An even better way is to leave the propshaft loose in the hull until you have your engine mounts made and then, with the aligner fitted, epoxy both engine mounts and propshaft in place at the same time. When it is all dry take off the aligner and fit your universal. Hope this helps, regards, Ian.

[HS93 (RIP)]

you need to Mount EVERRTHING as low as possible remove the timber and put bearers on the hull and then get some insulation from Bruce eng it is not expensive , the reason for all this is that a boiler and engine have a lot of weight high up and if you do not plan carfully you will find the boat rolls all over the place.

Peter

[Muleears]

Thank you gentlemen for some great insight.
Ian:  Fortunately I have not yet mounted the shaft, so I should be able to employ your technique.  I wasn't sure how I could mount the bearers on the hull but I now see how you suggest.  Will this method work on an ABS hull?  I think I will try to align the motor with the propshaft as opposed to using two universals.

Peter:  Good point about weight distribution.  You are also suggesting that I  mount the motor directly to the hull to keep the CG as low as possible? Instead of mounting it on the flooring?  I should do this with the boiler as well?

[steamboatmodel]

If you mount it on the flooring you need to have it lower than what is shown in your photo. I try to mount my engines, boilers and gear (pumps, condenser/separator etc) all on one plate, so it can be removed as a unit.
Regards,
Gerald.

[Muleears]

If you mount it on the flooring you need to have it lower than what is shown in your photo. I try to mount my engines, boilers and gear (pumps, condenser/separator etc) all on one plate, so it can be removed as a unit.
Regards,
Gerald.

More good advice!  This is great. Thanks.  I have a piece of quarter inch birch plywood that I am considering using as the "plate" you mention, and mounting it where the dark brown flooring is but mount it as low as I can.  Mount the motor at the rear edge and the boiler in front.  Think that would work?  Or does my "plate" need to be metal (brass)? I probably won't have a water tank or condenser in my first boat, but I may have a butane tank.   Thanks again.

[steamboatmodel]

If you make the plate out of wood make sure it is well waterproofed. I make mine out of Aluminum because I found some 1/8" plate. I did make one out of ash bearers in a ladder stile that supported the boiler and engine and lifted out.
Regards,
Gerald.

[HS93 (RIP)]

is the hull Fiberglass ? or abs/vacformed. try and make a plate to hold the complete plant, gas tank can be separate, that way you can do any testing on the bench, you can if you make it easy to remove clean it away from the boat and do maintenance , if you do a  brass or ally plate , bending the edges can make it ridged. if you glass in some hardwood bearers you can then lag underneath Easley.
Peter

[Muleears]

is the hull Fiberglass ? or abs/vacformed. try and make a plate to hold the complete plant, gas tank can be separate, that way you can do any testing on the bench, you can if you make it easy to remove clean it away from the boat and do maintenance , if you do a  brass or ally plate , bending the edges can make it ridged. if you glass in some hardwood bearers you can then lag underneath Easley.
Peter

Hull is ABS/vac. 

You previously mentioned insulation from Bruce Eng.  Can you tell me more about this?  Is it insulation for the boiler?

 I may have to glass the plywood I have, I don't really have the tools to fashion a metal one, unless it is quite thin.

[HS93 (RIP)]

Page 52, boiler laging .  this can be laid under the boiler so as to protect the hull, if you try and put some between the bottom of the boiler and the hull it will protect the hull when out of the water.

Peter


http://www.pollymodelengineering.co.uk/sections/bruce-engineering/docs/Catalogue-October-2011.pdf

[Muleears]

Page 52, boiler laging .  this can be laid under the boiler so as to protect the hull, if you try and put some between the bottom of the boiler and the hull it will protect the hull when out of the water.

Peter


http://www.pollymodelengineering.co.uk/sections/bruce-engineering/docs/Catalogue-October-2011.pdf

On this same subject, I see some boilers are lagged also.  What is used for this? 

I have found both sheets and strips of 2mm thick silica hi-temp insulation, some with hi-temp adhesive, would this work? Then cover it with mahogany strips?

Thanks again for the help.

[HS93 (RIP)]

Boiler covering is used for a few things it is decorative, it stops you burning your hands and it helps to hold the temperature it also stops the surrounding are of the boat from overheating, so worth doing , the easy way to do it and everyone has there own method and I am shore there will be a few more added is to use a few narrow strips of thin doublesided sellotape 15mm wide just to hold the insulation then plank using small drops of drops of superglue as the planks will probably be held by brass bands.
my way and there are other's

Peter

[Muleears]

Boiler covering is used for a few things it is decorative, it stops you burning your hands and it helps to hold the temperature it also stops the surrounding are of the boat from overheating, so worth doing , the easy way to do it and everyone has there own method and I am shore there will be a few more added is to use a few narrow strips of thin doublesided sellotape 15mm wide just to hold the insulation then plank using small drops of drops of superglue as the planks will probably be held by brass bands.
my way and there are other's

Peter

I ordered a little of this to test to see if it would work:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#high-temperature-insulation/=f2lbls

Price seems to be pretty good if it does.  What do you think?  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!   

[HS93 (RIP)]

Happy thanks Giving to you. I keep forgetting you are over the pond and down a bit, if you can get some under 2mm it wouls be fine abit bigger would do but it starts looking bulky.

Have a big Turkey butty for me.

Peter 

[Muleears]

I will have plenty of turkey, don't worry about that.
I may be getting the cart before the horse as I don't even have a boiler yet.  I have found a Maccsteam 3.5" that I may purchase, but I'll keep looking.

[HS93 (RIP)]

Good boiler used by a lot of mayhemers, I have not bought one yet but it will be Macksteam where  I go in future, when my stock of Cheddar boilers run out.
there are plenty of there boilers if you look in the steam section
Peter

[Muleears]

I have stained my motor mount plywood the color I want and I have sprayed between 7 and 10 coats of Helmsman Indoor/Outdoor Spar polyurethane on it for waterproofing. 

Should I mount the motor mount in a rubber or shock absorbing fashion or is this not necessary?

[HS93 (RIP)]

Mount it ridged , you would have problems with pipes slacking off , the engine does not rev high enough to worry about vibration

peter

[Muleears]

Peter, as usual what you have told me makes perfect sense.    I shall mount it to plywood blocks epoxied to the hull, using the method mentioned earlier in this thread by Ian.  My intent is to mount both the motor and the boiler on the same piece of plywood.  Speaking of boilers, I have found a Saito that I was originally going to buy but after some research found that although the Saito motors have good reputations, the boilers do not.  They are light duty brass boilers and better suited for the "toy" steam engines.  They are only designed to produce 20-30 psi (2 bar).  Is this accurate?  The Maccsteam I am also looking at operates at 60psi (4 bar).  What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks again for the advice.

[HS93 (RIP)]

Saito engines are Ok'ish not a big fan as some are cast from metals that I do not think are up to the job, there boilers are useless, I would not touch one , but I have been spoilt by having good solid copper boilers by Cheddar and MHB (part copper). I don't like them as they would have difficulty going through the tests over hear with some testers , I know that in the states every state seems to have there own regs some a loose some are not, I would stick to the Macc steam one over the base a bit of 1/4 ply with say a bit of tread plate or litho (must be spelt wrong as used by printers) or a sheet of thin K&S Brass so it can be wiped down it can be thin enough that it can be cut with scissors so you can bend over edges if you want so it can be wiped] clean are you going vertical or horizontal if vertical see if he can do a short in high but a bit more Diammeter.I have a old MHB boiler that is a bit like that and you have not got a lot of high up weight.

Peter

[Muleears]

Saito engines are Ok'ish not a big fan as some are cast from metals that I do not think are up to the job, there boilers are useless, I would not touch one , but I have been spoilt by having good solid copper boilers by Cheddar and MHB (part copper). I don't like them as they would have difficulty going through the tests over hear with some testers , I know that in the states every state seems to have there own regs some a loose some are not, I would stick to the Macc steam one over the base a bit of 1/4 ply with say a bit of tread plate or litho (must be spelt wrong as used by printers) or a sheet of thin K&S Brass so it can be wiped down it can be thin enough that it can be cut with scissors so you can bend over edges if you want so it can be wiped] clean are you going vertical or horizontal if vertical see if he can do a short in high but a bit more Diammeter.I have a old MHB boiler that is a bit like that and you have not got a lot of high up weight.

Peter

Because this is my first foray into steam I'm taking the safest route, for me I think that would be a horizontal boiler. It will keep my center of gravity lower as you say.

I hadn't thought of covering the wood with brass.  I doubt I can bend the edges good enough to make it look good but I think I can cut it and tack it to the plywood and it will look presentable.  Also offer a little more insulation for the hull too.


As always, thank you