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[south steyne]

Hi everyone I have been trying out some loctite liquid silicone on my twin cylinder engine as a alternative for gaskets and having great success with it on cylinder heads and steam boxes ,has anyone else had a go at this?
Cheers
John

[livesteam]

Hi
I used something like this once on a TVR1A but came to the conclusion that I prefer paper gaskets. I make them out of bake paper and soak them in oil. They seal well and are easy to make. Trouble with loctite is - in my opinion - that if a cylinder cover has to be removed there always sticks some leftovers to the parts.
Kaspar

[john s 2]

One other problem can be if too much is used and goes where it shouldnt.John.

[ooyah/2]

Hi
I used something like this once on a TVR1A but came to the conclusion that I prefer paper gaskets. I make them out of bake paper and soak them in oil. They seal well and are easy to make. Trouble with loctite is - in my opinion - that if a cylinder cover has to be removed there always sticks some leftovers to the parts.
Kaspar

Kaspar,
I'm with you, only that I use the old method of brown parcel paper or brown paper envelope soaked with engine oil, gaskets are so easy to make and material is plentiful.
Another good gasket maker is the silver foil from Kit Kat biscuits but I prefer the brown paper.

I have never used Silicone but should imagine that it would harden under heat and be a bit difficult to remove.

George.

[KBIO]

 :-)Good morning!
I use old marine maps that are a bit "parafined" and this is perfect. And so easy to cut!
I know, that mechanics do not like liquide sealant as it may go where it is not expected to, and then.......................................................you're in trouble with  the mechanic!
Have a nice day!

[livesteam]

I have never used Silicone but should imagine that it would harden under heat and be a bit difficult to remove.

George, this is exactly my experience!
Besides, I like the idea with the KitKat paper 
Kaspar

[ooyah/2]

Kaspar,
You have the added bonus in that the Chocky biscuits are good.
However as I am on a diet I use the oiled brown paper.
George. 

[Circlip]

Shame on you, depriving a rep of a holiday in a warm climate. Another throwback from the motor industry where time costs. Due to the gap filling properties of the liquid "Gaskets", surface finishing tolerances can be relaxed with their use on "Full sized" engines and a CNC applied bead will never dispense too much (Expense again) in the factory enviroment. With a mechanic however - - - - - -.

   As we "figure of eight" our mating surfaces on a wet piece of 1200, Oiled parcel paper is vastly cheaper than a tube of liquid gold, - doesn't go off either.

  Regards  Ian.

[Ted Welding]

Oiled paper every time! - and you can use the old mechanics trick to cut them - lay the paper over the part for which you want to form the gasket then use the ball end of a light ball-pein hammer to lightly tap the paper over the edges of the part.  The sharp edge on the part will cut the paper exactly to size. Use multiple light taps, and do not welly it or you may damage the sharp edge of the part.  With this method you can pick up exact positions of piston bores, cylinder head fastenings, etc.

Regards

Ted

[steamboatmodel]

Oiled paper every time! - and you can use the old mechanics trick to cut them - lay the paper over the part for which you want to form the gasket then use the ball end of a light ball-pein hammer to lightly tap the paper over the edges of the part.  The sharp edge on the part will cut the paper exactly to size. Use multiple light taps, and do not welly it or you may damage the sharp edge of the part.  With this method you can pick up exact positions of piston bores, cylinder head fastenings, etc.

Regards

Ted

One shop I used to visit as a teen used to have hardwood dowels and a small mallet for doing gaskets. They used to get the gasket material in sheets, rough cut over size with scissors soak in oil, then place over part and tap out there gasket. The left over piece went in a tin box. This box was a goldmine for us, once it was full  it was placed on the scrap bench, which we were allowed to take from.
Regards,
Gerald. 

[south steyne]

Hi fellas what the heck have I started here? all I asked was has anyone else tried this product and no I don't make it or sell it all I mentioned was it works fine for me and as for bits of silicon finding its way into nasty places it won't happen if only a small amount is used but I suppose for those that want to pull their engines down regularly which should not be necessary for a good running engine then fine as it may be more convenient to purchase ready made gaskets for the like of Stuart Cheddar etc and as my engine is scratch built then I have to experiment with what is available.
I have recently re designed the boiler water sensor for the Malcolm Beak electronic water level control which works perfect will post a diagram shortly
Cheers from downunder
John

[irishcarguy]

There is a sealer developed by RollsRoyce called Hylomar, I am not sure if it can be used as a substitute for a cylinder head gasket but works well in most other applications & is very easy to remove as it does not harden.I always use it to seal the water passages when fitting head gaskets. Mick B. (expensive)

[derekwarner]

Hi guys.......I have stayed away from this posting as our member 'south steyne' is only 5 minutes from me....... but I offer

1. 45 years ago I was taught to use thick brown paper & a series of gentle taaaaapppppiiiinnnnggg with the ball pein against the surface to produce your desired material gasket profile
2. next was to open the 1 gallon tin that weighed approx 20lb.........& scoop a hunk of "whire lead" & kneed into a soft paste
3. liberal sloshing of the white lead on both surfaces + joined by the paper gasket & that was guaranteed to last for 100 years

Times have changed...I would never use a ball pein to mark a paper gasket surface on a miniature steam component  

I have limited experience .....with the BLUE Hylomar product.... .....but have good experience with LOCTITE  567 Teflon for  boiler barrel nuts & such fittings

  I would never recommend attacking a bronze model steam component surface with a hammer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .....

[kno3]

I have used both paper gaskets and Hylomar and had good experiences with both. The advantage with Hylomar is that it's easily applied. But if you need to take the thing apart again, you need to clean it up a bit and re-apply.
Paper gaskets take longer to make, but they can be re-used which is more convenient if you take the engine apart more often.

[gondolier88]

Paper gaskets take longer to make, but they can be re-used which is more convenient if you take the engine apart more often.

Not convinced they take longer- by the time you have delicately applied liquid gasket, making sure not to put too much on, which of course at some point you do so have to get something to clear the excess with, getting alover your fingers in the process despite your best efforts not to, then have to clean the object you cleared the excess with as you don't want to get it everywhere. When it comes to assembling extra care must be taken to make sure the liquid isn't comprimised by scratching the surface- and on top of that, if for soe reason you need to disassemble you need to scrape it all of carefully and start again.

On the last engine I finished rebuilding I tried liquid gasket for the first time and was distincly unimpressed, because of the above, and also as I had to disassemble a couple of times it just became stupid and reverted to making traditional paper ones, which of course worked perfectly as they always do. In gasketting the same joints with both methods I would say conclusively that paper ones are far more effective and quicker to make in the majority of cases.

Greg

[south steyne]

 {-)Like the sound of those boiler barrel nuts what are they? sounds maybe good for Christmas ha ha

[ooyah/2]

Oiled paper every time! - and you can use the old mechanics trick to cut them - lay the paper over the part for which you want to form the gasket then use the ball end of a light ball-pein hammer to lightly tap the paper over the edges of the part.  The sharp edge on the part will cut the paper exactly to size. Use multiple light taps, and do not welly it or you may damage the sharp edge of the part.  With this method you can pick up exact positions of piston bores, cylinder head fastenings, etc.

Regards

Ted

Ted,
 Having just picked up the correspondence on fitting paper gaskets and your recommendation to lightly tap the paper gasket with a small hammer
I must say that I was highly sceptical of this method as I usually wet the surface with oil and lay the dry paper on and rub all over which leaves a clear outline to be cut with small pointed scissors, oil the paper all over liberally with oil and fit.
However never being one to say it can't be done without trying it myself, I would give it a try.

I have just completed another Stuart Steam driven boiler feed pump so I took the cylinder and applied your method, not bad on the outside of the cylinder and it left a nice mark on the bore but not clean thro'
Cut out the center for the piston to go thro', affixed the end cover and punched the bolt holes thro' , quite a nice job.

Removed the end cover to fit the piston and rod but alas the piston wouldn't fit thro', I allow .0005"  undersize on pistons but the very gentle tapping of the hammer on the Cast Bronze cylinder casting edge was enough to create an interference on the bore.
I re-reamed the bore and the piston then slid thro'

In conclusion in my opinion your suggestion is not to be recommended, remember when mechanics fit gaskets they are not working with .002--.003" brown paper but possibly Klingerite material in the region of .015- .030 ".
I agree with Derek that it's not to be recommended on small model engines.

Derek,
I to am interested in what boiler barrel nuts are, would you please explain.
George.

[derekwarner]

Hullo George....Boiler Barrel Nuts....

Just the male stud coupling of a water gauge or the like  

Compression is achieved by tightening the nut on the stud when the stud is engaged in the female tapping

I am sure many would use an annealed copper washer.......but this does not necessarily seal on the root or valley of the thread form

So this is where I find the LOCTITE  567 Teflon paste perfect.... ....Derek

Oh...BTW...I misspelled white lead in the earlier posting....been take off the market now as it is poisonous  .......but it was really good to use

[ooyah/2]

Hi Derek,
Thank's for the pics, that's what I would call a lock nut, the mail thread would have some Loctite on it before screwing into the boiler bush and the lock nut allows the sight glass to be lined up before locking the nut against the bush.
Incidentally  how do you get a seal at the bottom of the sight glass ?
Can you drop the glass thro' a hole on the top fitting to line up with the bottom fitting and how do you get a seal there?

I have never seen a sight glass fitted this way, I have always made mine as the pic, the glass has a silicone ring top and bottom which allows me to tighten both top and bottom finger tight with the nuts as shown.
You can also see the lock nut on the end of the Banjo fitting just after the top fitting which allows adjustment to line up and fit the sight glass.
George

[derekwarner]

George - the boiler was built by Sandy Campbell of ACS Engineering

Yes ....the lower polished end of the 5 mm OD quartz tube sits on a 3 ID x 1 section silicone o-ring - the o-ring itself is supported on a stepped spigot that also has a lower cross drilling to pick up the gallery to the boiler water & naturally this is all loaded from the top fitting

The top connection is also ingenious  ....the top polished end of the tube is also sealed with the same 3 ID x 1 section silicone o-ring.....this is lightly compressed by a hollow cheese head stainless screw that has an horizontal drilling with a clearance to enable a full path of water [similar to a barrel bolt from a hydraulic banjo fitting]

The very top of the water gauge is sealed with a bronze hex nut which I seal with the LOCTITE   567 Teflon paste

The vertical alignment of the water tube is taken up by rotating the male stud fittings into the bronze boiler bush tapping........from memory they are 40 TPI so a fine adjustment is possible.........Derek