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[nhp651]

I didn't mention a 45 foot watson, Lance.
But I do speak from the horses mouth when I talk about 45' 6" (45.5),  46' and 41' Watsons and some Barnett 51' boats, as the chap I went to for advice many years ago when developing my watson ann lettitia russell kit (and he was a staff mechanic who served on most of the old class of boats) he told me the slip launched boats were (as the ALR was) exposed shafts. May be that the reserve and afloat boats have, because of the nature in which they are kept afloat, ( and I don't dispute that) tubes for the shafts to run in from the hull to the "A" frame, but ALR and the HF Bailey certainly don't as I have crawled under both boats in my time. Don't know about the Mary Stanford as she was an afloat boat, but as he said, and he worked on quite a number, they were exposed, sleaveless shafts....and who am I to argue with a staff mechanic.

[MikeA]

dont mean to jump in cos i dont know either of these boats but maybe thet changed them over the years??

[nhp651]

nmo probs, Mike.......I have to say, I don't doubt Lance at all, but I speak from actually seeing them also with exposed shafts, and as such we probably have the two sides to the same story......However, for modelling purposes, it's far easier to run exposed shafts from the stub of the prop tube to the A frame, than it is to run a two size tube with a shaft inside, for the object of Purity and the purist.

As you say, lifeboat development went a long way in the 20 century and I conceed that Lance has that configuration on his boats down at the Chatham museum, but it can't be said that all boats had that configuration, just as it would be wrong to say that ALL  41' watsons had a capstan on the deck midships starboard side of the main cabin.......I think I have only ever seen the Ann Letitia Russell with that capstan, and as such it would be wrong to say that No 41' watsons had a capstan on deck just because all others didn't.

There are many vaguries and differences on the  same class of lifeboat. Take the 44' Waveney for instance......no too were the same, The Fleetwood boat 44-015 had her forward fire fighting hose reel on the opposite side of the cabin to most other boats for some reason, and this can also be said of all old AND  new boats, and as such no hard and fast statement can be made about any boat. It was probably down to the yard that built each seperate boat, as there were a number of boat builders for lifeboats around the country.

That is why I said in my first post on this topic......Research into the boat you are modelling is paramount in all cases

neil.

[Netleyned]

I would have thought that the the RNLI plans would have had the information but obviously not.
I was involved 20 years ago in stripping to the bare frames and rebuild with new engines but the
original running gear of the 42ft beach launched Watson Charles Dibdin.
The last parts of the shafts were exposed and supported in an A type bracket with lignum vitae bearings

As has already been said, possibly afloat boats would have had enclosed shafts to combat marine growth
unbalancing the shafts.

Ned

[furball]

That is why I said in my first post on this topic......Research into the boat you are modelling is paramount in all cases

Absolutely - Find out everything about the particular boat you want to model - even down to specific periods in the case of the old boats, as they changed so much over the years.

For example, when I was doing the Duke of York, quite a lot of things differ from the kit it was based on :

- it was a very early boat, so had a simple one piece windscreen instead of the three piece wraparound one on the later boats.

- it was never re-engined with diesels, so kept the original exhausts on the stern, rather than the water cooled ones that were added to the sides of the hull.

- it had a special mast crutch when the smaller mast was added, as the crew wanted a canvas dodger over the forward cockpit that would have got in the way of the standard set-up.

- it had the earlier folding type of stanchions that screw to the deck inside the toe rail, rather than the later fixed ones screwed to the outside of the toe rails.

and so on.

just as it would be wrong to say that ALL  41' watsons had a capstan on the deck midships starboard side of the main cabin.......I think I have only ever seen the Ann Letitia Russell with that capstan, and as such it would be wrong to say that No 41' watsons had a capstan on deck just because all others didn't.

Absolutely - DoY didn't have one at all.

Even now, someone's just given me a photo showing that I've got completely the wrong ship's wheel in there 


Lance

[nhp651]

that's what is so enjoyable about our hobby Lance...the pre lim research.
i have to admit though that modellers have to incorporate some modellers and artistic license in able to make a working model, and that's what it's all about.
neil.

[Norseman]

Not a lifeboat, but I thought I knew The Kalakala inside out and refits etc. I have collected pre build some 950 images and plans. Image 951 shows something prominent and different  - now I have to find an explanation. All part of the fun.

Dave

[nhp651]

the Flying Christine that I am building over on RCMB has 3 (three) configurations of the same boat ( and not including it's roll as a sea plane tender) and when you are trying to be accurate you don't know which era of the boat you need to detail it as....very confusing.......but fun.
neil.

[Norseman]

Hi Neil

so you could build accurate to one era - or just for once, be a bad bad boy ......... and pick all the bits you like yourself and ignore the rivet counters 

Dave

[furball]

.. and pick all the bits you like yourself and ignore the rivet counters 

Noooooooooooooo! 


For me, things have to be as accurate and as scale as I can make them.

Lance

P.S. Neil, does Mary Stanford have the anchor crane? If so, I've come across the engineering drawing for it that you can have a copy of. 

[nhp651]

could you send me a scan of it please Lance.......she has two lifeboat type davits, port and starboard, and a large hand cranked windlass on the engine casing, but hot a "crane" as such.

Dave, if I built as all types of the same boat, this "£thing" would have 3 different masts in three different places, lol. I have photos of her in three different guises....so am going to build as the simplest and the one I've done meets that criterior.

neil.

[Norseman]

Ha Ha

Lance - I really loved the 'Noooooooooooooo!  '. At least you guys can have a laugh at your addictions - I wish more people were able to do that. I agree about as much correct detail as possible but I also met a guy at Victoria Park at a Steam Fair. This guy talked to me for about an hour, showed me his boats built from all sorts of bits. They were nice too - he was absolutely made up with his boats and I thought that was a great thing to have achieved such happiness. ................. but then again he wasn't building a named ship so had as much licens as he liked - something you guys don't really have.

By the way Neil I'm enjoying the discussion on Lifeboat detail even though I can't quite follow it all.

Dave

[Mk1]

Hi Neil I am building the other Mersey Lifeboat on here at present and reading your above artificial on non slip areas of the boats. Could you advise me on how to paint the cabin deck and roof were there are non slip areas  and still keep the rest Orange gloss. I thought about spraying the whole think in Orange Gloss and then put the non slip on [the stuff you said about above] but you cant get a Orange one so what do I paint this non slip area with to keep it Orange and Matt as the Gloss is in a spray can. Would you also put a coat of lacquer on the cabin. I am trying to get it to look right.

Thanks John

[nhp651]

Hi Mk1.

I would suggest that you spray the superstructure with your orange gloss first (Volkswagon Brilliant orange is a favorite with Lb modellers.from halfords) and leave for 48-72 hours to harden and cure.

Then mask off the areas that you need the anti slip and spray with the can shown in previous coats....  It goes on looking like a jelly but dries to a hardened textured surface...BUT TRY IT OUT ON A DUMMY PIECE OF PLASTICARD OR TIMBER FIRST..I prefer to leave this for a couple of days to harden.
I have now started to mask off with with a newish tape on the market called "FROG" tape....... B& Q stock it.expensive but well worth it.  it doesn't allow paint creep under the tape..pure brilliant
see a photo of a hull I painted below

once it has cured....you can get an orange colour match ( almost, as the none slip areas on boats usually comes out a slightly lighter shade on real lifeboats ) from either Revelle or Humbrol. they also have a matting agent in small tins. Mix this paint at a ratio given on the matting agent tin( if you can't find a matting agent, then use a matt varnish that they supply( and use 50 /50 with varnish). once you have mixed the matting varnish and the orange paint...mix into a "colour wash" ....(a very thin  paint) at a ratio of 1 - 9 paint to thinners respectively.........this will then go onto the colouring very thinly, evaporating reasonably quickly, but depending on the colour to be covered it might take a few coats.
However, if you are covering the textured paint, you can buy, in the same range of paints, a very light almost beige coloured texture which will cover better with an orange colour wash.

neil.

[Mk1]

Many thanks for that have now got a beige coloured texture can as well now will try it out in the next couple of weeks.

John