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[Thelegos]

Hi all,
I've acquired an old engine and boiler and wondered if it can be identified or if it's been scratch built many years ago.

It turns freely but there is play in the crankshaft. I've taken lots of reference pictures and the next job is to strip and clean, I don't see it working in anger again because of the play but it will look nice 

Roger

[tobyker]

Looks like a one-off to me. If there is slop in the bearings you can sometimes overcome this by soldering in bits of brass tube and drilling them out to fit. Get her going - you know you want to!

[Thelegos]

You're probably right, some pictures of the dismantling below.

The flywheel is a hollow cup filled with lead and there is what seems to be leather type material as piston seals.

There's also a shot of the sliding valve and the cylinder bores, the cylinders are soldered to the bottom and top plates.

Roger

[ooyah/2]

Roger
What you have is a home built job by somebody trying to copy a Stuart Sun engine and not very well done with the open crank case and very poor bearings.
The leather type material in the pistons look very much like dried out graphite packing.
It will take some restoration but best of luck.
Can you post some pics of the boiler.
George.

[Thelegos]

Hi George, I don't see this as ever having a productive future, just an exercise in preserving another variation on a theme that must have once been the pride and joy of another enthusiast. Judging by the condition and build up of deposits it's been used quite a lot and given many hours of pleasure. Good for him 

I'll try and get some pictures of the boiler on tomorrow' it seems equally unusual!!

Roger

[ooyah/2]

Hi Roger,
Sorry if I was a bit critical but only that the bearings were a bit small, possibly who ever made it had limited machining facilities but no doubt his/her pride and joy.
I am all for people having a go irrespective how it turns out and as you say it has been well used, look forward to see your restoration of the engine.
George

[Thelegos]

Hi George, no problem at all !

I've had a chance to clean it a bit, definitely home made and probably with limited budget and resources but nonetheless I always admire peoples ability and enthusiasm with model making. I'd have been chuffed to bits if I'd put this together and floated my boat 

A few more pictures, not that it's particularly interesting but just look at the assortment of screws, bolts and nuts that were loosely holding the big ends together. I know bearing caps should never be mixed once matched but these must have been cut after the hole drilled, one is off-centre and the cuts that separated them somewhat random.

I've got under the dirt and apart from shafts and gears it's almost entirely brass with a bit of copper here and there.

Roger

[mogogear]

She will live to team again--and perhaps even run more smoothly--Engine love!

Good luck and have fun

[Thelegos]

George was curious about the boiler so here it is. 7" long by 2" diameter and very heavy!

[ooyah/2]

Roger,
Thanks for the pics.
I was curious on the age of the boiler due to the apparent age of the engine.
The boiler looks O.K. but I would have it hydraulic tested before using it and confirm whether it's Soft or Silver soldered.
Also as it's an Ali casing and shows no sign of the Ali being burned or discoloured is there  some insulation inside the casing.
If so please carefully check as to whether it is or isn't Asbestos, as in the bygone days Asbestos was used without any thought of the consequences

George..                                                                             

[Mad_Mike]

I think the engine is brilliant!   Id dare say that this engine is probably a school/college student project and from judging by the missalignments and dodgy assembly id say its 95% made from hand tools on a kitchen table. It just goes to show that you can still make a functioning steam engine without the luxury of a mill and lathe. truly inspiring peice of kit

[Thelegos]

Hi George,
I understand from the previous owner that there was asbestos insulation, this was all removed before it came to me but I've carefully washed and cleaned the whole thing before even dismantling it, there was nothing visible but I still feel a bit cautious! The aluminium is darkened inside the upper area.
The solder on the engine is pretty soft and can be scraped easily but I've not tested the boiler. I need to get some fibre washers etc. to seal the valve and filler point and I guess could use my compressor to see if here is any obvious leaking and test the pressure relief valve.
Is the boiler layout usual? I'm not an expert by any means but haven't seen a structure of tubes like this.

Mad_Mike you may be right about a school project, that did cross my mind. My son has just finished building an ipod dock for his GCSE's, back in the day this would have been similarly popular and admired technology. How things change !!

Roger

[boneash]

Roger

javascript:void(0);
DO NOT TEST WITH AIR

that would be B...... silly

hydraulic is much safer

[Circlip]

I'm not an expert by any means but haven't seen a structure of tubes like this.

   One of many standard cross tube designs, and you really should read some of the standard pieces of information re safety and testing of boilers. Perhaps a scatterbomb statement to see if us old f***s are awake?

   Regards   Ian

[Thelegos]

Thanks boneash, I wasn't sure and hoped for feedback which is well received!!

Am I right in expecting the operating pressure to be 40- 60 psi and therefor test pressure to be double that? Any ideas how it can easily be achieved hydraulically or is contact with our local model engineering society in order?

I've no burner either other than a meths type on an old Bowman stationary engine. I've e newer Hemmens Bradford but that has the luxury of gas   I've seen solid fuel burners on ebay and assumed they would do the job, any thoughts on that chaps??

Roger

[Thelegos]

Thanks Ian, just dipping a toe into the very different world of steam. I've been trawling around on the net and getting info and a very long way from even considering firing anything up!! I wasn't sure about air and the responses have clarified that one ! It seems that owning and operating requires significant commitment!

I need to test the solder first I guess to see if it's hard or soft, is this as simple as just scratching it with a blade or similar?
This is clearly an important point which begs the question if it's soft soldered should the boiler be disposed of?

Roger

[ooyah/2]

Thanks Ian, just dipping a toe into the very different world of steam. I've been trawling around on the net and getting info and a very long way from even considering firing anything up!! I wasn't sure about air and the responses have clarified that one ! It seems that owning and operating requires significant commitment!

I need to test the solder first I guess to see if it's hard or soft, is this as simple as just scratching it with a blade or similar?
This is clearly an important point which begs the question if it's soft soldered should the boiler be disposed of?

Roger

Roger, If you have washed the casing will be O.K. and it will be safe enough.
The boiler layout with the 2= tubes at the bottom is an indication of it's age, in the past there was all sorts of configurations made  but after K.N. HARRIS published his books things became a bit more rational.
The 2- tubes in my opinion are superfluous as the fire hole in the casing is very small and would allow only a small burner which wouldn't apply direct heat to the tubes only to the underside of the boiler..
Be careful with the boiler as it would appear to be soft soldered, another indication of age, if you can scratch it it's soft soldered.

I must agree with the other comments and don't put your compressor on it to test it as it could come apart with serious consequences.

I am reluctant to write the following but if treated with respect ,it's safe enough.

I have made many boilers in the past and for a first test on them I made an adapter from the valve from my high pressure cycle tyres and screw it into a bush, put a bicycle  pump on it and with the boiler at the bottom of a water filled bucket, the deeper the better,  apply about 2-3 stroke of the pump which is enough to show any air bubble leaks, and I do mean 2-3 strokes which will give about 3-4 p.s.i.

IF IN DOUBT GET SOME BODY TO DO A HYDRAULIC TEST ON IT.

I don't think this has been a school project as in the time scale when it was made schools didn't have lathes or mills and not some botched up kitchen table job.

Some of the parts are turned, the pistons and their oil grooves, the main shaft has been turned in one piece, con rod ends have been turned  so somebody has known what they were doing with a lathe..
I am quite sure when you have cleaned up the engine it will look the part but whether you steam it is up to you.   Don't be afraid of working with steam but a great deal of common sense is required.
Regarding your question on working pressure I wouldn't go as High as that without having a proper hydraulic test on it

George.

[Circlip]

OK, knees firmly straightened, to clean the boiler up, although I would normally advocate use of dilute battery (Sulfuric) acid, if you obtain some Citric acid - - cooking supplies or wine making component and allow the boiler to soak, it will come out bright. The fillet of the joints around the fire tubes look to be too fine to be soft soldered, but, the joint around the water tubes on boiler photo no2 look to have been caulked with soft solder. Check the fillet on the end around the Hex, again, this looks to have been caulked with soft solder as it looks too big. It could be that the boiler was originally silver soldered throughout but when tested, dribbled a bit and rehard soldering is a real pain to any but the experienced. Whatever the boiler can be tested at, make sure that an accurate method of setting the safety valve is used by someone competent to do it.

  Regards   Ian.

[Thelegos]

George / Ian, thanks for your time and advice, it's much appreciated. I've not had much time today and I'm away this evening until late tomorrow working.

I've done a bit of scratching and light cleaning on the boiler and I'm pretty sure it's not soft soldered, infact some of it has that brassy tinge and looks like it's brazed - and is very hard. Is this a possibility? If so is that a good or bad thing?

The safety valve was seized up but having freed it off it's just a simple spring with a cone-ended plunger through the cap. No adjustments other than the main body that screws in but feels like a tapered pipe thread so it would need to be fully tight to seal so that leaves a change of spring - or a new valve. I'll have to think about cleaning, my son suggested soaking it in coca cola but I like drinking that 

Any advice on a burner?

A bit of background, I've been on the lookout for a boiler to go with my Double 10, in the process I've acquired this little old setup which isn't suitable but interesting in its own right. Also a very nice Hemmens Bradford boiler with the Max II engine and peripherals which has only been fired once, I'm not sure if it's quite big enough for the Stuart engine but have a Deans Marine Badger which could be a suitable place for it with the Max II. Food for thought!!

Roger