Topic: My Krick Victoria - MkII (Read 115380 times)

muleears · « **Reply #225 on:** January 11, 2013, 09:30:27 am »

I have been absent for the past couple of months, sometimes life intrudes and we can't do the things we want! Now with the holidays out of the way, I should be getting back to the build in a couple of weeks. Thank you all for your assistance and advice.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #226 on:** January 11, 2013, 09:53:43 am »

Good form, and a Happy New Year to you sir.....

SailorGreg · « **Reply #227 on:** January 11, 2013, 01:59:09 pm »

Welcome back Cal - I was wondering what had happened to you. I'm looking forward to some more progress on your Victoria.

Greg

muleears · « **Reply #228 on:** January 12, 2013, 01:02:27 pm »

How/where to you all get/make decals for the name of your boat? My boat is a Victoria but I will be naming it something else. Does someone offer a service to make decals? Any information is greatly appreciated. I'm not at the point I need to do this but I just want to be prepared in case I have to wait for it.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #229 on:** January 12, 2013, 04:38:16 pm »

Hi Cal, do you have a place that makes vinyl signs near you, the sort you plaster over cars, you would be surprised how small they can make things, failing that BECC here in the UK do vinyl lettering you can then make your own.

SailorGreg · « **Reply #230 on:** January 12, 2013, 06:26:20 pm »

Well, if you end up ordering from the UK you could do a lot worse than Barry's Model Lettering - www.modellettering.com. He will even do a special order for you if you want to go to those lengths.

Greg

muleears · « **Reply #231 on:** January 12, 2013, 10:19:34 pm »

Thank you gentlemen, both very good ideas. I hadn't thought of the lettering/sign shop. I'm sure I can find someone nearby to do that. This boat has become a very special project for me and I want everything "just right".

southsteyne2 · « **Reply #232 on:** January 13, 2013, 12:06:46 am »

Hi everyone sounds like the noise of a big end bearing and in your case I think it is coming from the pin or pins connecting the prop shaft and being intermittent because there is no load on the prop

I would suggest some silicone tube over the pins but first try with some load on the prop to see if it makes a difference
John

muleears · « **Reply #233 on:** January 13, 2013, 03:25:38 pm »

Quote from: southsteyne2 on January 13, 2013, 12:06:46 am

Hi everyone sounds like the noise of a big end bearing and in your case I think it is coming from the pin or pins connecting the prop shaft and being intermittent because there is no load on the prop I would suggest some silicone tube over the pins but first try with some load on the prop to see if it makes a difference
John

John,
I have some tubing on the pins but it is air hose and kind of hard. I will exchange that for some softer silicone tubing and see how that does. I have tried putting a load on by placing a finger on the shaft and it didn't make any difference. I have a suspicion that the knock I'm hearing is the pin on the prop shaft sliding over the nut at the bottom of the pin on the engine shaft and bumping. I will try to take a pic and post but it is a very confined area and may not come out well. Maybe I'll attempt a video with our new Christmas camera.

Today may be the day I get the Victoria back on the building table and begin work again. I have a few other odds and ends to take care of but my plan is to get the tools/materials/accessories/etc. out so I can re-start work in earnest. I may take a day just to take stock of where I am. I have jumped around a bit in the building process, and probably gotten ahead of myself in some areas. Wish me luck!

muleears · « **Reply #234 on:** January 13, 2013, 04:18:48 pm »

As I'm getting the boat and parts back out of storage I'm noticing many things have tarnished or dulled somewhat.

How do you all keep the brass and copper pieces shiny? Is there something I can paint or coat them with? Or am I just in for never ending polishing?

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #235 on:** January 13, 2013, 05:49:33 pm »

Good evening Cal, to protect your brightwork, you need to use a Laquer, similar to this ...
http://marinestore.co.uk/Incralac_Rylard_Brass_Lacquer_500ml.html
It should be readily available on your side of the pond at a yacht chandlers of hardware store.
Hope this helps, looking forward to more photos of your build,
Regards,
Nick....

muleears · « **Reply #236 on:** January 13, 2013, 06:38:22 pm »

Quote from: pettyofficernick on January 13, 2013, 05:49:33 pm

Good evening Cal, to protect your brightwork, you need to use a Laquer, similar to this ...
http://marinestore.co.uk/Incralac_Rylard_Brass_Lacquer_500ml.html
It should be readily available on your side of the pond at a yacht chandlers of hardware store.
Hope this helps, looking forward to more photos of your build,
Regards,
Nick....

Brass lacquer... never knew there was such a thing. But now I see I can get it on Amazon. Thanks Nick!

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #237 on:** January 13, 2013, 10:16:54 pm »

Also used on trumpets, trombones etc and antiques....

muleears · « **Reply #238 on:** January 13, 2013, 11:34:17 pm »

Attached are a couple pics of the coupling between my engine and propshaft. It appears from the angle the pic was taken to be horribly out of alignment but trust me, they are in perfect longitudinal alignment. There is some vertical offset and of course the downward angle. The reason I'm posting this is I'm back to my old problem of the noisy drive line. I will tomorrow post a video of the engine running at various speeds. The only power supply is my air brush compressor however. Today I ran it (on air) and tried moving the prop shaft in all directions to no avail. Some were slightly better than others but none were quiet. I tried putting a load on the motor by placing my finger on the prop hub, which put a forward pressure on the prop shaft, but still no joy. I can slow the engine down to tick over and you can see that the clank appears to sound once per revolution. This would lead me to think something is striking something else. I can assure you nothing is striking anything! When operated separately the engine and prop shaft are quiet. The motor chuffs and puffs as I believe it should, the prop shaft when spun by hand does not make the clanking sound. Only when the two are joined and under power does it clank. Is the power from the engine fairly steady or is there a pronounced pulse or thrust during the cycle? I'm thinking if there is a pulse from the engine maybe the prop shaft gets pushed ahead of the crank shaft from this pulse and when the two meet again I get this clank. On the other hand I may be thinking about this way too much

! I'll put together a video tomorrow and hopefully you will be able to hear and see my problem. I am confident someone here has a solution

.

Tug-Kenny RIP · « **Reply #239 on:** January 14, 2013, 11:41:54 am »

Could you try a flexible rubber coupling as an experiment. If you are getting a "tick tick" it may be due to forces involved on the rotating pushing system.

Cheers

Ken

southsteyne2 · « **Reply #240 on:** January 14, 2013, 12:33:43 pm »

I have been using a flexable alluminium coupler for a few years with no problems

very inexpensive and comes in different sizes to suit your shafts on ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-6-35mm-x-8mm-Shaft-Coupling-CNC-Stepper-Motor-Flexible-Coupler-Clutch-/121016376141?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1c2d235b4d
it keeps things simple
Cheers
John

muleears · « **Reply #241 on:** January 14, 2013, 01:20:49 pm »

Quote from: Tug---Kenny on January 14, 2013, 11:41:54 am

Could you try a flexible rubber coupling as an experiment. If you are getting a "tick tick" it may be due to forces involved on the rotating pushing system.

Cheers

Ken

Ken you hit the nail on the head. I substituted a piece of silicone and bingo, silence. Now I just have to figure out why it clanks.....

muleears · « **Reply #242 on:** January 14, 2013, 04:44:59 pm »

Pic of my silicone tubing coupling. Runs nice and quiet, too bad it won't handle the torque. I looked at the coupling John posted but I don't think I can use it for a couple reasons. As you can see from the pics the prop shaft and engine shaft almost touch. I have cut back the prop shaft length all I dare, so I don't think I have room for it. I also have some vertical offset which this coupling cannot accommodate.

Way back earlier in the thread I had a rubber coupling that would work great but it was 1.5 inches long, again I don't have the room. I suppose I could shorten the engine shaft but I am very reluctant to do that. I don't have the option of moving the engine either as this boat was designed for a vertical boiler and I am putting a horizontal in it which creates much more weight forward, hence I can't move the engine forward due to weight/balance concerns.

muleears · « **Reply #243 on:** January 14, 2013, 06:19:56 pm »

Well here is the promised video! I run it on air at various speeds, you may need to turn your sound up it isn't very loud on the video, it is louder in person. At the end I flick the propshaft into the engine shaft so the pins strike each other. This seems to be what is making the sound. I think the pins striking are causing the prop shaft to vibrate within the tube and that is what makes the sound, not so much the pins hitting each other. Now, how do I stop it? Again, I know it looks like it but nothing is touching either of the pins or the wheel as they rotate.

http://youtu.be/RLST1jPLFl8

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #244 on:** January 14, 2013, 07:07:23 pm »

Hi Cal, I will be brief as I have had an operation on my hand today, so typing a bit tricky. That sounds like a drum, as if the brass tray was being struck, is the stern tube resting on the brass bedplate? Also, try binding the the driving pin on to the shaft pin, just a couple of turns of fusewire would suffice, and see if you get the same sound.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Nick.

Tug-Kenny RIP · « **Reply #245 on:** January 14, 2013, 07:53:02 pm »

Quote

Now I just have to figure out why it clanks....

I should imagine it's the piston action being duplicated by the forces of the thrust on a wheel causing acceleration and deceleration of the shaft.

This is picked up by the rubber and bouncing minutely cause a pushing end to repel the receiving mating surface. In other words tie the two ends together somehow. If you don't have room for a joining tube then how about a solid rubber block with 2 holes in it to match the arms and keep them spaced apart.

Cheers

ken

muleears · « **Reply #246 on:** January 14, 2013, 09:45:41 pm »

Quote from: pettyofficernick on January 14, 2013, 07:07:23 pm

Hi Cal, I will be brief as I have had an operation on my hand today, so typing a bit tricky. That sounds like a drum, as if the brass tray was being struck, is the stern tube resting on the brass bedplate? Also, try binding the the driving pin on to the shaft pin, just a couple of turns of fusewire would suffice, and see if you get the same sound.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Nick.

No the stern tube isn't touching any brass anywhere. I have to be careful binding the two pins together. Remember I have a vertical offset to deal with so the pins actually have to slide along one another as they go 'round. At the top the driving pin is at the end of the driven pin away from the shaft, 180* later, the driving pin is at the end of the driven pin nearest the shaft. This is a really poor description, I can take some pics to illustrate later.

What's up with the hand? Nothing serious I hope. Can't have something like that interfere with your building

.

muleears · « **Reply #247 on:** January 14, 2013, 09:51:00 pm »

Quote from: Tug---Kenny on January 14, 2013, 07:53:02 pm

I should imagine it's the piston action being duplicated by the forces of the thrust on a wheel causing acceleration and deceleration of the shaft.

This is picked up by the rubber and bouncing minutely cause a pushing end to repel the receiving mating surface. In other words tie the two ends together somehow. If you don't have room for a joining tube then how about a solid rubber block with 2 holes in it to match the arms and keep them spaced apart.

Cheers

ken

Not sure I could do the block, the vertical offset would prevent it I think, unless I misunderstand how it would work (which is entirely possible). I may have to come up with a different plan altogether...

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #248 on:** January 14, 2013, 10:00:57 pm »

Hi Cal, had a Carpal Tunnel relief operation, I have had bad hands for years, the op is supposed to cure it. Have you tried a disk with a slot in it as is on my Victoria? Runs nice and quiet, just make sure the driving pin is long enough to compensate for any misalignment. If the pins are only tied loosely, they will still be able to slide, as Kenny said, they could be bouncing apart. Does it make the same noise when running in the opposite direction? Things like this are a bit tricky when there is a few thousand miles of ocean in the way, probably sort it in no time with a bit of 'hands on'. Surgeon said to excersise fingers, so I may as well type rather than just aimlessly wiggle my fingers about, both hurt anyway.
Hope you get the job sorted,
Regards,
Nick.

vnkiwi · « **Reply #249 on:** January 14, 2013, 11:55:23 pm »

Hi Cal,
from your descriptions and photos, and finally your video, would seem to me that you have a wee bit of a fundamental design flaw in your coupling alignment.
The intersection of your two shafts should be at the centre of the coupling.
If its not then your prop will not revolve at the same rpm as your motor.
You said yourself that there is a vertical offset and in your video, it is apparent that the prop is not running at constant rpm. it 'hunts' ie speeds up and slows down during each revolution.
See the sketch for reason. If you don't fix this it will result in excess wear everywhere, and always make the sound. Get that intersection back where it is supposed to be and everything will be fine
Hope this helps
cheers
vnkiwi

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Author Topic: My Krick Victoria - MkII (Read 115380 times)