Topic: Flags and political correctness... (Read 17849 times)

dodgy geezer · « **Reply #25 on:** May 16, 2012, 10:56:38 am »

The reason that I get terribly upset about political correctness (and all other forms of social pressure) is that it stops people thinking for themselves.

I believe that there should be no 'banned' areas of thought, and that people should decide what they think and be prepared to justify this in argument if necessary. This is the best way to find out if something is true or false. The minute you start saying that you will 'bow to political correctness', you are really saying that you won't support your own ideas any more, but will let someone else do your thinking for you.

That attitude lies behind much of what is wrong with current politics. If people were more engaged in what was being done in their name, I think that a lot of the sillier policies we have seen over Mid-Eastern wars, green issues and Health/Safety would have been much harder to steamroller through....

Arrow5 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 16, 2012, 11:13:30 am »

Strange that the Olympic torch hasn't been eliminated by the PC brigade, it is a Nazi invention for the 1936 games, not an ancient Greek tradition.

funtimefrankie · « **Reply #27 on:** May 16, 2012, 01:47:11 pm »

Most of this stuff about PC correctness, Health and safety etc are just myths, perpetuated by people who don't bother to check their facts.
Look at the Health and Safety web sight to see these myths exposed.

From a post higher up......."its illegal in the UK to put the correct insignia on models"............ says it all

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #28 on:** May 16, 2012, 02:12:34 pm »

Quote

is that it stops people thinking for themselves.

You mean they actually started.....?

RAAArtyGunner · « **Reply #29 on:** May 17, 2012, 12:40:07 am »

Quote from: Colin Bishop on May 16, 2012, 02:12:34 pm

You mean they actually started.....?

I thought everyone did it everwhere like we do here in OZ

irishcarguy · « **Reply #30 on:** May 17, 2012, 05:56:19 am »

I just go my merry way & ignore it all, that really gets the thought police in a tizzy.We have a bad habit of giving people like that way too much power. When they annoy me I have some very nasty words I use that can't be repeated here in case they would cause another melt down of the forum, Mick B.

Arrow5 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 17, 2012, 09:56:14 am »

Olympic torch Nazi origins on BBC Breakfast programme this morning...ooh er

funtimefrankie · « **Reply #32 on:** May 17, 2012, 10:31:58 am »

well if I followed the story correctly. carrying the torch was first agreed in 1934. and it just happened to be Germany that were the first to implement the idea. being the next host.

Arrow5 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 17, 2012, 10:49:49 am »

Hmmm, and which party was in power in Germany in 1934? Wikipedia has a good write-up about this. The Nazi propaganda machine loved the connections to the ancient Germanic myths knights and so on. Aunty Beeb probably had to put a slight spin on the facts to suit the English..., sorry London jamboree

Raymond · « **Reply #34 on:** May 17, 2012, 12:45:27 pm »

I remember seeing a program somewhile back which said the olympic rings were a nazi invention for the 1936 olympics,and the nazi's linked the design to some ancient ayrian master race.As for fitting the flags etc.fit them,if any one complains tell them where to go,you can't change history no matter how bad it was.

Arrow5 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 17, 2012, 12:59:58 pm »

Certainly similar linked rings were used when four car manufacturers amalgamated to form Auto Union during that period, better known today as Audi. Wonder if that was the inspiration. The swastika was put on the headrest of many of the racing cars and record breakers such as this for propaganda.

Bob K · « **Reply #36 on:** May 17, 2012, 01:31:10 pm »

According to Wikipedia . . .

"The symbol of the Olympic Games is composed of five interlocking rings, coloured blue, yellow, black, green, and red on a white field. This was originally designed in 1912 by Baron Pierre de Coubertin, the founder of the modern Olympic Games."

Arrow5 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 17, 2012, 01:33:47 pm »

Time out caught me again. Sorry

dodgy geezer · « **Reply #38 on:** May 17, 2012, 01:53:11 pm »

Quote from: Raymond on May 17, 2012, 12:45:27 pm

I remember seeing a program somewhile back which said the olympic rings were a nazi invention for the 1936 olympics,and the nazi's linked the design to some ancient ayrian master race.As for fitting the flags etc.fit them,if any one complains tell them where to go,you can't change history no matter how bad it was.

I think you're getting a bit confused with the Swastika, which is indeed an old design - believed to be Indian originally. Here is the front page of a copy of a Kipling book I have - this printing is from 1916, but the edition is the 1903 version. So you can see that the swastika (pre 1940s) was not seen as an unusual symbol at all - just an Indian sign adding an exotic tone - in this case to a children's book...

Circlip · « **Reply #39 on:** May 17, 2012, 01:58:20 pm »

The Nazis reversed the symbol so the legs pointed the opposite direction.

Regards Ian.

Trevor Holloway · « **Reply #40 on:** May 17, 2012, 04:40:31 pm »

Whilst in South Korea for work a few years ago I was surprised at the amount of swastikers on the buildings until I found out that they were all over the buddist temples !
The symbol was stolen by the nazis for their own - a clear breach of copyright !

Netleyned · « **Reply #41 on:** May 17, 2012, 04:52:41 pm »

Contrary to popular belief the symbol swastika
was used both ways in Hindu and Bhuddist
religions
The nazis just chose one

Ned

Raymond · « **Reply #42 on:** May 17, 2012, 06:13:04 pm »

Quote from: dodgy geezer on May 17, 2012, 01:53:11 pm

I think you're getting a bit confused with the Swastika, which is indeed an old design - believed to be Indian originally. Here is the front page of a copy of a Kipling book I have - this printing is from 1916, but the edition is the 1903 version. So you can see that the swastika (pre 1940s) was not seen as an unusual symbol at all - just an Indian sign adding an exotic tone - in this case to a children's book...

Most certainly not getting confused with the swastika,the program showed how the nazi's tried to link the rings to the German people , and their conection to some past super race,it was all about how they used the olympics to further the nazi ideals .

RAAArtyGunner · « **Reply #43 on:** May 17, 2012, 10:41:30 pm »

Somewhere, probably lost now, in the back of my brain, I also recollect that the swastika was a religious symbol.

essex2visuvesi · « **Reply #44 on:** May 18, 2012, 06:53:09 am »

yes it is and also used on Finnish armour during the winter war

Photo courtesy of the Finnish Tank Museum, Parola, Finland

Arrow5 · « **Reply #45 on:** May 18, 2012, 07:19:18 am »

The Finnish one is square on , not tilted and is blue. It was also used in Latvia, red this time.

essex2visuvesi · « **Reply #46 on:** May 18, 2012, 08:56:54 am »

Must have been a right royal pain in the bum during WW2 as the Finns flew a bit of everything... english, russian, American and german. and with a swastika on the side it makes me curious how many were shot at by allied forces

Arrow5 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 18, 2012, 09:42:23 am »

Good point. I wondered about that myself. Consider that in the Pacific the non American allies had to remove the red centre spot on RAF and RAAF roundels as some pilots could only see a "meatball" and reacted accordingly

. The Finnish Bf 109 must have been a nerve wracking ride in WW11.

RAAArtyGunner · « **Reply #48 on:** May 18, 2012, 09:50:43 am »

Not to mention that "D Day" all allied aircraft had broad black and white stripes painted on them to distinguish them from the enemy.

If it didn't have black and white stripes shoot it down both in the air and from the ground.

Also didn't matter if you were colour blind stripes were easy to make out

dodgy geezer · « **Reply #49 on:** May 18, 2012, 10:48:13 am »

Quote from: essex2visuvesi on May 18, 2012, 08:56:54 am

Must have been a right royal pain in the bum during WW2 as the Finns flew a bit of everything... english, russian, American and german. and with a swastika on the side it makes me curious how many were shot at by allied forces

I think the position of Finland in European fighting is somewhat confusing. Finland has always been overshadowed by Russia, so most of its policies have been aimed at defending itself against this giant neighbour, who had conquered it in 1809.

In 1917/18, as Russia collapsed in revolution, Finland ejected Russian occupation (supported by Germany), and gained independence. At that time Germany was seen as a friendly power.

By 1939, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact 'gave' Finland to Russia, so Finland was fighting Russia and Germany became unfriendly. At this point Finland was looking for help from Sweden and Britain against Germany, and proposals were made for Finland to join the Allied side.

When Germany turned on Russia in 1941 Finland then allied with Germany in order to keep fighting Russia. This meant that there were occasions when Britain and Finland fought.

In 1944 the Germans started collapsing, and the Russians switched their troops towards German invasion, away from Finland (where they were not doing well). This led to the Finns obtaining an armistice from the Russians. Part of the terms were that the Germans should be ejected from Finland - the Germans did not want to go, so the Finns promptly fought the Germans again, until 1945.

Since Finland had sided with Germany at various times it was classified as a belligerent and fascist power in the Paris peace treaty, paid reparations to Russia, and remained aligned with Russia (though somewhat distantly) during the Cold War....

So, briefly, and misusing the words 'Axis' and 'Allied' to refer to political inclination rather than actual treaty agreements, Finland' policy was:

1930s - Axis
1939-1941 - Allied
1941-1944 - Axis
1944-1945 - Allied

I would guess that Allied, Axis and Finnish pilots fighting in this theatre needed a regular and frequent check with their respective embassies to confirm who it was they were fighting that day...

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Author Topic: Flags and political correctness... (Read 17849 times)