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Author Topic: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?  (Read 29502 times)

BarryM

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2007, 08:45:17 am »

It's becoming clearer but beware of reports fromthe media written by people who would not recognise an anchor chain from a binnacle. 

It would appear that the Highland Valour was helping to support the weight of the chain, presumably via a J-hook chain chaser and the chain was jumping off.

Barry M
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Shipmate60

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2007, 08:55:02 am »

Barry,
The assumption that we had made was it had to be the weight of the chain that Girded her.
With the rig in deep water then the Anchor Chain had to be a considerable length, therefore weight.
Once ths weight came on the ships side it wouls easily list her.
The problem we had was how the chain gor off the working deck.

Bob
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BarryM

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2007, 02:03:41 pm »

Bob,

Trying to make sense of the reports as translated from Norwegian by non-mariner journalists is difficult but it seems that the chain was being held in place via the hydraulic towing pins rather than the Shark Jaws. (Probably because of the sea state and thus the imposed loads on the jaws??) One of the pins is described as being retracted allowing the chain to veer to the ship's side. (Why retract it?)

The "thruster" is described as overheating. Was this the bow tunnel thruster or the bow azimuth thruster - or because the main props are sometimes described as "thrusters", was it one of the four main engines? Whichever, the cause could have been that the cooling water intake was out of the water and drawing air.

The A/H winch emergency release which would have put the winch into free run and allowed the weight to come off the vessel (quickly enough?) failed to function.

The main engines failed. For their own protection, marine diesels are designed to trip out when the list becomes excessive. From memory (and I think I'm right) the trips are set for angles in excess of 40 degrees from the vertical

Would the horns on the bulwarks designed to prevent girting, have been effective once the list became excessive? 

The input of the Highland Valour had not been revealed before now. 

This is enough speculation on my part but some things are becomimg a lot clearer.

Barry M
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martno1fan

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2007, 02:04:29 pm »

does this mean the chain was too heavy for the ship? so making the ship too small for the job  or am i missing something.
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2007, 02:31:18 pm »



I wouldn't think the design of the ship comes in to question just yet. No matter what the design, if you hang enough weight to one side, ANYTHING will fall over. It seems to be pointing to equipment or human failure in that in the sudden emergency, the anchor chain couldn't or wasn't released from the ship..... but what do I know.  :-\
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BarryM

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2007, 02:55:18 pm »

Martno1fan,

Sorry to disappoint you and your favourite theory but the answers to your questions are No, No and Yes. Bigger rigs than this have been anchored up by far smaller and much more basically equipped vessels than the B Dolphin.  50 tons bollard pull and 2,000 bhp was once considered adequate and chain handling involved lassoos and pelican hooks. It was an extremely hairy business.

A basic primer on anchor-handling:-

A rig carries its chain in lockers located in the corner columns. (Wire-moored units have storage reels on deck.) Moorings can vary from two to three on each column. The chain runs upwards from the lockers, over a powered winch on the top of the column, down the outside of the column via fairleads to a point near the column base and then out to the location of the anchor.

In shallow water (most of the North Sea) when mooring up, a crane on the rig passes the anchor via a pennant wire to the AHT which may carry it slung over the stern roller or may take it on deck. (The latter is usually the case if the mooring pattern includes seabed pipelines.) The AHT then moves out to the required location with the rig anchor winch paying out the chain under power until the pre-determined point for the anchor where it is released. The anchor location is often marked by a buoy.

In deep water such as this time, it is not possible for the rig to control the weight of the chain on its winch. Bear in mind that the rig chain was (I believe) 4". That is not chain with links 4" long but chain made from 4" diameter steel bar bent to shape and weighing about 150 kg/metre. It would be normal for the AHT to remove the rig anchor on its deck from the chain and feed the latter into its onboard chain storage lockers provided for this purpose. The BD had four with a capacity of 540 cub.m.. The AHT would then move away and the rig pay out more chain until at a predetermined point the rig would stop paying out and apply its winch brakes. The AHT would continue moving away while paying out rig chain from its lockers until the anchor position was reached. At this point, it would reattach the rig anchor to the rig chain (while the latter was secured in the Shark Jaws) before allowing it to go over the stern roller and then be lowered to the seabed. For long, deep-water moorings, (or mooring patterns crossing pipelines)  it would be normal  for another AHT to assist by sharing some of  the weight of the chain while it was being deployed. This would be via a J-hook lowered over the stern roller until it caught on the chain. . Thus the rig anchor chain would be supported by the rig, the AHT laying the mooring and the second AHT somewhere between the two.

It would appear that this time the second AHT was having trouble staying connected by its J-hook to the chain and thus considerable fluctuations of load were being imposed on the B Dolphin. While these loads were over the stern roller, this would not endanger the vessel although it would be causing  some anxiety. What does appear to have happened was that somehow the chain was able to move to the side and girt the vessel. Why this happened is the thrust of the inquiry. Remember " Give me a fulcrum and I'll move the world." It wouldn't have mattered if the B Dolphin was twice or three times her size, once girted with that weight of chain and with her winch emergency release u/s, she had no chance.

By the by, crudely speaking, towing pins are like twin posts that are recessed into the deck when not in use, ahead of the stern roller. Hydraulics raise them above deck and allow wire/chain to be coralled between them and stop it moving to the side. They may be independently raised or lowered.

Shark Jaws are also raised or lowered from flush with the deck and may also be closed or opened to grip wire or chain and prevent it moving in any direction. B Dolphin had two sets.

The towing pins would have been in use to keep the chain over the stern roller as the AHT moved away from the rig. The Shark Jaws would have been used to keep the chain steady while the rig anchor was being reconnected.

Barry M



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martno1fan

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2007, 04:39:17 pm »

thnx for the reply but maybe its time for a new design just a thought !!.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2007, 05:11:15 pm »

Quote
thnx for the reply but maybe its time for a new design just a thought !!.

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the outcome of the enquiry before jumping to conclusions - or do you already have something on the drawing board which will solve the problem?

Thanks for the description Barry, I found it very interesting.
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BarryM

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2007, 06:35:05 pm »

thnx for the reply but maybe its time for a new design just a thought !!.

The North Sea is one of the worst (if not the worst) operational areas in the world for oil operations and the first AHT, many of them Gulf of Mexico boats, struggled to cope. The B Dolphin was one of a class of vessels produced by Ulstein who have a second-to-none reputation for producing North Sea tonnage and the NS AHT in general has been evolving over 40 years. I daresay that further improvements may be made but I suspect these will be fairly limited. To suggest that building ever larger vessels (do your research on 1960's vessels versus today's) is - what's the word I'm looking for? - naive??
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martno1fan

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2007, 07:02:18 pm »

its not naive its common sense to me the bigger the ship the less likely to pull over and to use such ships in such a way to me is folly surely a flat bottomed hull (platform) would be more stable than a ship!!.just a thought but makes sense to me. remember ship designers once said the titanic was unsinkable!!.
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BarryM

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2007, 07:07:41 pm »

apology accepted (my names martin too ),seriously though i apologise if ive offended anyone don,t get me wrong i as much as anyone feel for the families of the dead and maybe i should have zipped it instead of voicing my opinions on certain things.wrong time wrong place so i also apologise ,lets hope the truth comes out .

Martin,

It may be folly to you but you're not a mariner nor a naval architect nor in any position to criticise vessel design. Remember your own advice as above.

Barry M
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John W E

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2007, 08:05:47 pm »

Hi All

Thanks BarryM for shedding some light on a grey area of sad news.  It helps one understand what duties the tugs do out in the North Sea Environment.

Our thoughts go with the families who have lost their loved ones.

John 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2007, 10:04:12 pm »

Quote
ship designers once said the titanic was unsinkable!!.

Sorry, you got that wrong too - it's an often quoted myth.
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martno1fan

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2007, 11:05:21 pm »

Quote
ship designers once said the titanic was unsinkable!!.

Sorry, you got that wrong too - it's an often quoted myth.
yea right it must be correct cos you said so.the only myth is that small ships can stay afloat when over loaded !!.
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Shipmate60

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2007, 11:25:34 pm »

martno1fan
It is easy to see who is blinkered here.
Barry obviously knows what he is quoting.
I have just come ashore from a Mooring Vessel that regularly handles old Admiralty Square Link Chain which is much bigger and therefore heavier than Rig Mooring Chain.
It is a real shame that your conspiracy theory gets in the way of FACTS.
This Enquiry is crucial to the safety of mariners operating this type of vessel, if there is any doubt there will be an outcry from experienced mariners used to working in this field.
OUR LIVES DEPEND ON IT.
In this type of accident it is usually the Engineering staff that get killed as they get trapped in the Engine Room.
I am one of those.
At first your comments were amusing and show just how ignorant of the maritime world you are.
Now they are just tiresome.
Try to look at this in a reasonable light, if YOUR life depended on how these vessels operate, would YOU let a substandard enquiry report on this accident. I or my peers certainy wont.
Don't you realise we are discussing this accident on a daily basis.

Bob
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martno1fan

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2007, 12:13:47 am »

no offence to you or anyone meant here but i still think you need bigger boats for the job.
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BarryM

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #91 on: April 27, 2007, 07:46:16 am »

Martin,

When I said you were "naive" that was to test if you understood irony. You failed that test too.

Barry M
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martno1fan

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #92 on: April 27, 2007, 09:22:40 am »

Martin,

When I said you were "naive" that was to test if you understood irony. You failed that test too.

Barry M
dohh  ::) is that your attempt at humour ?,you failed  ;D  ;)
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BarryM

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2007, 09:45:25 am »

 [/quote]
dohh  ::) is that your attempt at humour ?,you failed  ;D  ;)
[/quote]

No. You failed that test too.
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Daryl

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #94 on: April 27, 2007, 10:34:32 am »

Thanks Barry/ shipmate60 for your wonderful descriptions, very interesting and helpful for understanding the process they attempted.

Daryl
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Daryl

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #95 on: April 27, 2007, 03:37:22 pm »

This has just popped up on the Norwegian Maritime Dept web site.
www.sjofartsdir.no/en/News_-_press_releases/Investigating_committee_appointed/

Its in English and looks like we might have a long wait to find out their conclusions.

Daryl
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catengineman

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #96 on: April 27, 2007, 09:50:07 pm »

I feel it is better to wait for the outcome of the investigation than to continue and speculate on what and why this tragic occurrence happened.

Richard, thinking of those lost and affected by this incident.
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wbeedie

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #97 on: May 21, 2007, 07:09:46 am »

Having been on a vessel that sunk we waited nearly a year for the MAIB reportto come out (MFV Radiant) so have been through an inquiry as there was a fatality thes things are there to try and stop similar incidents  happening again as almost happened with the FRV Scotia almost capsizing with water enttering the engine room through goooseneck air vents that were to low the problem with us was we were practically anchored to the seabed with our nets ,doors ,clump and 1500 metres of 3" towing wire it is not a nice thing to happen which goes to show the sea is the most unforgiving workplace in the world and accidents do happen and thats what has happened
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #98 on: May 22, 2007, 10:33:36 pm »

I don't think that putting prejudice before facts constitutes "sceptical". I just hope you never get called for jury service.
Colin, I think you are correct....but please do not go down the route I originally took: and lose your temper. There are many erudite and learned responses on this site. If you don't know what the hell you are talking about then shut up and listen (not aimed at you Colin).
I have been VERY impressed by some of the answers/theories given by "those who know" and have been less than impressed by a few respondents whose nautical knowledge/experience seems to be akin to driving a pedallo.
Be of good cheer, and keep putting me in my place! Cheers. BY.
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Pointy

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Re: Bourbon Dolphin Capsized?
« Reply #99 on: May 23, 2007, 08:20:35 pm »

Fascinating thread :o
Really makes you think about what kind of operations happen in the North Sea on a daily basis.

I keep looking at BarryMs' post on "basic anchor-handling" and thinking "Bloody hell and he calls that "basic!" Imagine doing that in bad weather, it sounds terrifying- all that heavy noisy machinery, chains and wires that could snap, a heaving deck and a deadly environment.... I don't know what they pay those men on those ships but its not enough.
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