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[pettyofficernick]

Good Morning Mike, the Silverline torch uses propane. I don't know if you could use butane without changing the jets, others could probably answer that question better than I.I always use screwed connections from boiler to engine, there is always the danger of silicone tubing being forced off by the boiler pressure. Proper unions are cheap enough so why compromise,. Here's where I get my steam fittings from....
Regards,
Nick.

http://www.steamfittings.co.uk/asp/index.asp

[Mad_Mike]

would this propane fit onto your blow torch do you think?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251035581344?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

[pettyofficernick]

No, you would need a proper bottle, the red ones, ( red for propane, blue for butane ), barbeque or patio heater gas. You would need a regulator and a hose to go with the torch, I got the lot in one go as a complete set total cost inc torch was about 25 quin inc postage, I will see if I can find the invoice, as I have forgotten who the supplier was, I know they were on fleabay....
Regards,
Nick

[Mad_Mike]

you dont mean one of those big 50kg calour gas type bottles do you?

[pettyofficernick]

I have the 9kg size, the little dumpy one....

[essex2visuvesi]

Have a look at this one, It has done everything I have asked of it, the regulator is on the same page, brilliant for silver soldering on a budjet.
Regards,
Nick..

http://www.tools4trade.com/d-10473002-silverline-456996-general-purpose-propane-torch-25-35-50mm.aspx

Those things have the added advantage of being great for clearing patios and driveways of weeds :) A good selling point when putting the purchase past the finance dept

[Mad_Mike]

I have the 9kg size, the little dumpy one....

ill struggle to store that anyway in my house. unless i can fit a small bottle directly to the handle. wouldnt something like this be adequate?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PLUMBER-GAS-HEATING-FITTERS-PIPE-FITTINGS-TOOL-SET-GAS-BLOWTORCH-PROPANE-GAS-/251074954470?pt=UK_DIY_Materials_Plumbing_MJ&hash=item3a753bc4e6

[pettyofficernick]

Those things have the added advantage of being great for clearing patios and driveways of weeds :) A good selling point when putting the purchase past the finance dept

Indeed, she can de weed the patio any time she wants to.... 

[Timo2]

Hi

 Ref Gas Torch look for a REFILL type eg :-  http://www.toolchestdirect.com/product.php/section//sn/PRM2135

 Timo2

  ( over 50years in the tool trade )

[pettyofficernick]

ill struggle to store that anyway in my house. unless i can fit a small bottle directly to the handle. wouldnt something like this be adequate?

That would be fine for making up steam pipes and fittings, It may not be adequate for 2 inch copper or brass as a lot of heat is lost by conduction of heat away from the bits you are wanting to solder, silver soldering temperatures are a lot higher than those required for soft soldering, you may be ok using 2 torches, one as general overall heat and one to supply more concentrated heat to where you are actually soldering.

[Mad_Mike]

ive now got 3 contradicting oppinions I appreciate the help and i thankyou all. But ooyah2 (george) says a plumbers lamp will do it. Timo2 say that sievert will do it and nick you say they wont do it. Im now pretty confused.

The main tool im after is someting that will make the engines, the parts will be small and intricate but i want them silver soldered or at least soldered so that the engines i build will operate under steam.  I am tempted to make the boiler myself and would really like to do it however fitting the end caps as far as i can see is the only job which requires this massive heat and if thats the case then it would possibly make more sense to either borrow a large blow torch or get someone else to do it.

I dont know 

[Timo2]

Hi

    Try your Local Model Engineering Club ???  some have club equipment you can hire.

       Ref :-  Propane Blow Torch  if you use refill type it,s cheaper in the long run. plus most have different burner sizes ( Heating down to needle point )

       P.S.  Propane take you up to  615c   check out  http://www.sievert.se/default.asp?locId=8&langId=1&pageId=6&areaTypeId=3&areaId=28

                                     Burner no 884204  or new type 333301

Timo2

[rmaddock]

Just to confuse you further, I've been advised to use MAPP gas...which can acheive temperatures over 2,000 degress. It's expensive but you get a LOT of heat.

[Mad_Mike]

making the boiler might not happen but i will still be able to make the engines. If i were to buy one of these reasonably priced blow torches, would any of these braze 1/8 brass rods togeather and things? Also seeing as the temperature of the engine wont be as hot as the boiler would brazing be even necessary what about soldering at a lower temperature?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290660520580?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390368202088?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380183398208?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

thanks

[ooyah/2]

Mike,
I have already suggested that you look at a plumbers blow lamp which will be fine for silver soldering.

Any of the 2- £30 quid jobs will do, my preference would be the PRIMUS and it would also do for soldering a brass boiler.

I think that you are beginning to get a bit confused with all the suggestions on High Temp burners, buy one of the above and have a go.
George.

[Mad_Mike]

thats the problem i am confused there are so many types of lamps and contradicting contributions. I did take note about using a plumbers lamp like you said and it seemed hopeful but then other information cropped saying that these smaller lamps are no good at all for making boiler becuase they dont generate enough heat.

I will get the primus. If i need a bigger lamp ill borrow one.

thanks

[ooyah/2]

Mike ,
A plumbers blow lamp like the PRIMUS one will be fine and learn how to use silver solder by practicing on some strips of brass.
Soft solder for your engine would be O.K. but the problem arises when you have soldered a joint and you want to make another joint near to the first the whole shebang falls apart, not with silver solder.
I have used a plumbers blow lamp for all sorts of jobs even small copper tanks and boilers and I am confident that the PRIMUS would suit your purpose.

The smaller burners with the needle tip flame are hopeless in my opinion for anything other than soldering small pipes.

Here is a pic of the one that I use to fire my boiler and for general silver soldering which is a plumbers blowlamp head modified to suit my boiler..

George.

[davidjt]

hi,

i have had my tamar (20mm burner)  BT 3000 brazing torch for must be 15 years runs on butane/propane from b&q.
(butane is no good not hot enough).  i have silver solderd 1/8 inch brass rod no problem as long as it is clean (must be clean)
as for 2 inch tube no chance unless you have other backup heat like in the video. also used it for 15mm copper pipe connections no problem as long as you have protection round to stop heat loss if youare in draughty place. look under tamer and you will see what size they are. hope i have not confused you more

davidjt

[ooyah/2]

hi,

i have had my tamar (20mm burner)  BT 3000 brazing torch for must be 15 years runs on butane/propane from b&q.
(butane is no good not hot enough).  i have silver solderd 1/8 inch brass rod no problem as long as it is clean (must be clean)
as for 2 inch tube no chance unless you have other backup heat like in the video. also used it for 15mm copper pipe connections no problem as long as you have protection round to stop heat loss if youare in draughty place. look under tamer and you will see what size they are. hope i have not confused you more

davidjt

David,
Absolutely correct about a 2" tube if its copper and depending on the Gauge no chance of soldering..
Mike was considering a brass tube of light gauge which is a different kettle of fish which is very easy to solder with a blow lamp, I say this as I have done it but you have to be careful not to apply too much heat or the brass goes on fire and disappears leaving large holes, done that as well.
As you have said you need to insulate below the the job to avoid heat loss, I wrap ceramic cloth around the tube and it's sitting on a proper brazing hearth.

For larger boilers I use a 1.5" dia flame tube torch that I made with a .025" jet using a 4.5 kg Butane gas bottle., the burner head has a needle valve to adjust the gas flow, been in use now for the last 12 years.

Although I have been successful with brass tube I just don't like brass boilers.

George.

[Stavros]

ill struggle to store that anyway in my house. unless i can fit a small bottle directly to the handle. wouldnt something like this be adequate?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PLUMBER-GAS-HEATING-FITTERS-PIPE-FITTINGS-TOOL-SET-GAS-BLOWTORCH-PROPANE-GAS-/251074954470?pt=UK_DIY_Materials_Plumbing_MJ&hash=item3a753bc4e6

Right I HAVE one of these that I use for SILVER soldering BUTU I must admit I do stuggle a bit with it BUT I use one of these with a SMALL Propane cyinder

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/fc108-gas-torch-with-nozzles


Dave

[Mad_Mike]

thanks for your help lads now all the confusions cleaned up i know where i stand. Im just trialing steam at the minute and theres not much point me getting the big gear yet.

stavros that was the original torch recommended and i was going with until i found out it needed a seperate cylinder to operate. When i say i got limited space i mean it has to all fit in my tool box

I work on the dining room table so when i braze the boiler i suppose i can do it in the porch. I willl need to look up ceramic cloth and a brazing hearth now. Then illl need to bend me head around types of solder

and people say brushless is hard to get to grips

[Mad_Mike]

Ive been busy making another plastic card engine. Its double acting with a slide valve. I think there the right words, have to get the lingo down. Anyway i struggled to source a suitable flywheel so made one out of plasticard with 2 pences peices on it. It does work but i havent got a video yet to prove it. Ill do one tomorrow:

[pettyofficernick]

Hi Mike, CuP alloys do a simple brazing hearth for  38 quid including postage,also heat resistant blankets and vermiculite pads, all quite reasonably priced and free delivery. Your latest engine looka good, have you made it go yet?
Regards,
Nick
http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/heating-c107.html

[essex2visuvesi]

I sneaked a pic of mike working on his latest creation

[Mad_Mike]

Hi Mike, CuP alloys do a simple brazing hearth for  38 quid including postage,also heat resistant blankets and vermiculite pads, all quite reasonably priced and free delivery. Your latest engine looka good, have you made it go yet?
Regards,
Nick
http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/heating-c107.html

I found this one last night, its made of vermiculite, seems like the stuff to have:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soldering-Mat-Pad-Brick-Board-or-Brazing-Hearth-/110899821396?pt=UK_Crafts_JewelleryMaking_GL&hash=item19d224fb54

Ebay doesnt sell the blanket and that site you mentioned doesnt use paypal. I dont make online payments without paypal. i will ask them though. Im trying to keep it cheap as possible at the minute. A boiler from tony green models is 100 pound, with a 40 quid kit, 20 quid blow torch and 38 pound hearth it would seem more sense eventually going that route at this rate. But i wont learn anything doing that and id rather make my own stuff.

I have just made a vid of the new engine running ill upload it to you tube and put a link here soon