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Author Topic: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions  (Read 38155 times)

john s 2

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2012, 05:09:45 pm »

Thanks for your question. Nick has kindly answered it.John.
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muleears

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #101 on: August 01, 2012, 12:03:16 am »

Success! I straightened the connecting rod and moved a washer to the other side of the con rod to give it a little more clearance and viola!. Now it starts in both directions with no nudges! Will slow down to a crawl too!  Thanks for all the advice.
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Cal
Washington, NC USA
Proud owner of:
75% complete Krick Victoria
75% complete Billing African Queen
Krick Alexandra
Lots of building, very little steaming!

pettyofficernick

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #102 on: August 01, 2012, 12:12:41 am »

Well done! :-)) :-)) :-))
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ooyah/2

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #103 on: August 01, 2012, 09:13:01 am »

I don't want anyone to think I will be utilizing my boilers in a fashion that would endanger anyone but myself.  And I don't plan to do that!  In the future I will fire my boilers for the first time in my back yard.  I have a location were I can be 80m from my house and 120m from my only neighbor.   If I cannot find a source for hydraulic testing, what alternative is suggested?


Nick,  I think I have found where the engine is binding.  In the pic below, in the red circle you can see the pin (end of the crank) protrudes from the counterbalance.  It appears this is rubbing on the back of the lower portion of the connecting rod.  The engine binds when these two meet and it is free when they aren't.  Apparently the lower portion of the connecting rod has been slightly bent inwards.  I will straighten it and see how it goes.  Thanks for sticking with me.






Cal,
Nothing causes more controversy around the Global forums than boiler test certification and the fact that you have been willing to ask questions tells that you are a responsible person and wish to be safe in what you do.

There are only 2- bodies that will require you to produce a certificate and that is a club that you are a member of in order to have public liability insurance cover in the event of any accidents.
The other is the insurance company who will take on the risk and insist that boilers are certified by 2- competent testers.

There is no inputs from Government, Local authorities or any other authorities.
You will however get all sorts of advice from those who have never built a boiler nor been involved in testing of the same and knowledge has been gleaned from books.

You have asked the question on other methods of  testing and have been given an excellent method by using the Rothenburger test gear if not a bit expensive.
This would not however qualify for a test certificate but very good or proving the integrity of the boiler before presenting it to the testers.

As you are fairly isolated with no other steam enthusiasts in your area I can suggest 2- methods only to test the boiler that isn't a commercially recognized one.

Your Maccsteam one will be O.K. and as you have already discovered from well known steam enthusiasts in the U.S.A. that your brass boilers don't need testing but the unknown copper one is advised to be tested.

Have a look around the circumference of the boiler shell and at ether end there may be some markings that will determine the working pressure of the boiler.
If there are no markings I would guess on a figure of testing to 60 P.s.i. which will give you a boiler of 30 p.s.i. working pressure.

Strip the boiler of all cladding and fittings., Plug all holes bar one which will probably be the safety valve bush, get a 2" dia pressure gauge ( you will get one at a reasonable cost from Engineering supply company )  make a fitting that has a male female thread , one to suit the gauge and one to suit the boiler bush.

Completely fill the boiler with water leaving no air space, screw the pressure gauge into the boiler and set it up on two bricks, gently play a plumbers blow lamp on the copper side of the boiler until the gauge moves, this next bit takes a bit of care, keep playing the burner on and off as the pressure rises until it's up to about 40 p.s.i. then continue to gently touch the boiler until you reach 60 p.s.i..
Shut down your burner and the pressure will very quickly drop.
This hydraulic test isn't sufficient as a certificated test, as on a hydraulic test the boiler must hold it's pressure for 15 mins but it will show up any water leaks in the boiler, which if it leaks all that you will get is a spray of hot water, not boiling water !!!

I have on occasions tested a boiler for leaks by plugging all holes and making an adapter to take a cycle tyre connection and with a cycle hand pump screwed on to the connector put the boiler into a deep bucket of water and then give it no more than 4 -strokes of the pump which will produce air bubbles if there are any leaks.

Here is a pic of a 2" dia gauge fitted to a Yarrow boiler and a pic of a boiler stripped ready to fit the gauge on, mounted on "V" blocks ready to heat for a quick hydraulic test,which incidentally was pressurised initially by the heating method to 175 p.s.i

The best method of course if there is nobody to hydraulic test your boiler is to make a test rig or by/rent the Rothengerger gear.
My suggestions are purely for those isolated with no external help from other steam enthusiast, in all of my years involved in steam models, Locos and Marine I have never seen a boiler burst nor have I ever heard of one doing so.
 

George.








Scotch Marine boiler ready for test.



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muleears

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #104 on: August 01, 2012, 09:35:09 am »

Thanks George, that is all very useful. 

Below is a pick of my "unknown" boiler.  It is quite heavy so I believe it to be copper. I says "stuart" on the gauge.  Any idea of the manufacturer? A Stuart perhaps?




Thanks again to all for the assistance.
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Cal
Washington, NC USA
Proud owner of:
75% complete Krick Victoria
75% complete Billing African Queen
Krick Alexandra
Lots of building, very little steaming!

pettyofficernick

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #105 on: August 01, 2012, 09:49:15 am »

That looks like a Stuart boiler, one of their earlier ones, how is it fired?
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ooyah/2

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2012, 10:03:12 am »

That looks like a Stuart boiler, one of their earlier ones, how is it fired?

Nick,
I have to disagree with you on this one, it's not well enough made for a Stuart or any other maker, just look at the hammer marks on the lid and the fittings a very amateurishs, very much a home built job and not soo well at that.
George.
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pettyofficernick

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #107 on: August 01, 2012, 10:07:22 am »

Nick,
I have to disagree with you on this one, it's not well enough made for a Stuart or any other maker, just look at the hammer marks on the lid and the fittings a very amateurishs, very much a home built job and not soo well at that.
George.
Yes, on closer inspection you are right, I only looked at the small photo, but it looks very similar to a vertical Stuart I had about 15 years ago. I stand corrected :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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ooyah/2

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #108 on: August 01, 2012, 10:40:15 am »

Yes, on closer inspection you are right, I only looked at the small photo, but it looks very similar to a vertical Stuart I had about 15 years ago. I stand corrected :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Nick @ Cal.
Although it looks like a home made job doesn't mean it's no use.
Due to the appearance of age  I would definitely do some tests on  it  i.e do a complete strip down checking for calcification internal boiler fittings and  make sure that you have a known safety valve set at a known pressure which I wouldn't go above 60p.s.i and would recommend a hydraulic test.
A good ceramic burner would fit below the boiler.
George.
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #109 on: August 01, 2012, 05:59:01 pm »

Cal,
I found the following;
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f42/us-state-boiler-code-8141/
Virgina
40.1-51.8. Exemptions
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+40.1-51.8
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+16VAC25-50-10
When I tested my Wilesco Boiler after making repairs I made a fitting that went in the safety valve bushing with a 2" Dia 120psi gauge on it. I then gently heated the boiler ( it being filled completely with water) until the gauge read 60psi, I then backed the flame away until the pressure stayed at 60psi. I then had a cup of coffee while watching the pressure and moving the flame back and forth. When I finished the boiler had maintained a pressure of about 60psi for a good half hour, I then let the boiler cool down (It was around 300 *F at 60 psig ) and inspected it for distortion non found. I then figured in my own mind that the boiler was safe to run again.
Regards,
Gerald.
Regards,
Gerald.
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muleears

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #110 on: August 01, 2012, 09:36:11 pm »

Cal,
I found the following;
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f42/us-state-boiler-code-8141/
Virgina
40.1-51.8. Exemptions
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+40.1-51.8
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+16VAC25-50-10
When I tested my Wilesco Boiler after making repairs I made a fitting that went in the safety valve bushing with a 2" Dia 120psi gauge on it. I then gently heated the boiler ( it being filled completely with water) until the gauge read 60psi, I then backed the flame away until the pressure stayed at 60psi. I then had a cup of coffee while watching the pressure and moving the flame back and forth. When I finished the boiler had maintained a pressure of about 60psi for a good half hour, I then let the boiler cool down (It was around 300 *F at 60 psig ) and inspected it for distortion non found. I then figured in my own mind that the boiler was safe to run again.
Regards,
Gerald.


Regards,
Gerald.

Wow Gerald, that's some good research.  From what I read my "hobby boiler" is exempt in both states in which I might run it, VA and NY.  That doesn't mean I won't employ safe operating practices though. I would really like to find a club and have someone "look over my shoulder" as I proceed.
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Cal
Washington, NC USA
Proud owner of:
75% complete Krick Victoria
75% complete Billing African Queen
Krick Alexandra
Lots of building, very little steaming!

muleears

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2012, 10:03:36 pm »

Here are some more pics of my "unknown" boiler.  Maybe they will help with identification, or confirm it's home made origins.  The copper top and stack don't appear to be original (I think).











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Cal
Washington, NC USA
Proud owner of:
75% complete Krick Victoria
75% complete Billing African Queen
Krick Alexandra
Lots of building, very little steaming!

ooyah/2

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Re: Bought a new toy on Ebay, have some questions
« Reply #112 on: August 02, 2012, 02:54:52 pm »

Here are some more pics of my "unknown" boiler.  Maybe they will help with identification, or confirm it's home made origins.  The copper top and stack don't appear to be original (I think).















Cal,
I would say that your boiler is home made, the quality isn't there to have been made by Stuart or any other maker.
The design is very nearly for a coal burner with the bottom section having the ring soldered in to take the heating surface right down to the bottom and the black soot would suggest this, however there isn't a firing hole to get the coal in so it's been fired by another method, you could fire it with a round ceramic burner.

The 2- safety valves in pic No 2 look decidedly dodgy and I would strip them out , clean then and install new balls in them, maybe even fit new ones of proven pressure setting..
The clack  valve ( boiler feed water  connection ) looks the same and would need to be cleaned out.

When you have the top of have a look inside and see if there are any markings on the top flange with all the tubes coming thro", which if there are will be the makers test marks and the working pressure should be there.however I suspect that you will find nothing.

It looks like a good strong boiler but I would advise you to test it before using due to its apparent age.

It's very similar to one that I made but mine doesn't have the extra jacket going down the the bottom.

George.





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