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[pettyofficernick]

Yes it is quite simple really you have to remove the thyristor, diode and 2K resistor, add a 1Meg resistor across the space left by the thyristor, and fitting the 2 capacitors. It will become clearer when you see the innards of the lighter. If you get stuck, I am sure the collective brains of your fans will sort it out. To fire the system, you can use a tiny magnet in the flywheel and a reed switch or a micro-switch and a cam.

[geoff p]

If I may add my two-pennorth:
The gas-air mix should start around 1:13 (ish), and that's what Jan Ridder's vapour carb is about.  You can add extra air to "thin" it a bit once the engine is running.

Piezo-igniters ex-cigarette lighters take a horendous force to squeeze and require to be squeezed a long way before the spark occurs.  Somewhere in his pages, Jan points out that they are not practical - I confirmed this, the hard way.

Can you get the insulated part of your ignition-wire further into the cylinder?  The spark should easily jump 2mm under no-compression conditions.

Geoff

[Mad_Mike]

Yes it is quite simple really you have to remove the thyristor, diode and 2K resistor, add a 1Meg resistor across the space left by the thyristor, and fitting the 2 capacitors. It will become clearer when you see the innards of the lighter. If you get stuck, I am sure the collective brains of your fans will sort it out. To fire the system, you can use a tiny magnet in the flywheel and a reed switch or a micro-switch and a cam.

If I may add my two-pennorth:
The gas-air mix should start around 1:13 (ish), and that's what Jan Ridder's vapour carb is about.  You can add extra air to "thin" it a bit once the engine is running.

Piezo-igniters ex-cigarette lighters take a horendous force to squeeze and require to be squeezed a long way before the spark occurs.  Somewhere in his pages, Jan points out that they are not practical - I confirmed this, the hard way.

Can you get the insulated part of your ignition-wire further into the cylinder?  The spark should easily jump 2mm under no-compression conditions.

Geoff

Ive bought a battery operated lighter. I have actually bought the same one as jan has used and ill go with with magnet and reed switch so there is no load on the engine.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140857915489?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648
I just need to get hold of the components that he used to modify it. I need to check out this vapour carb,
 

[pettyofficernick]

Hi Mike, the vapor carb is so simple, air flowing over the petrol picks up vapor, no need for jets, float chambers, venturi, etc...

[Mad_Mike]

I got the new lighter today. As far as i can see the internals are exactly the same.

[pettyofficernick]

That's the kiddie!

[pettyofficernick]

Hi mike, I have made an attempt at clarifying the instructions for altering your gas lighter, (I have miss spelled thyristor) I hope this has made it a bit clearer for you. You should have all the bits you need by Saturday, post permitting'
Have fun,
Regards,
Nick.
Reed switch version.....




Microswitch version

[Mad_Mike]

how did you get the add image to post to work??? lol  
thanks for clearing that up for me. Im planning on going with the first one, but which one is better what are the differences?

[pettyofficernick]

Hi Mike, I just used the add image to post thingy and it wirked ok, didn't do anything special. I dont think it matters which  version you use, It's a case of there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.
Regards,
Nick.

[Mad_Mike]

As far as making anything for the engine there wasnt a lof left to do other than fit a few fiddly parts and time it up a bit. I used jans igniter system ignition and it does actually work, i had a lot of help from pettyofficernick and he sent me the parts id need. Thanks for those nick. I assembled the engine i mounted it to a board. its now finished. 

[pettyofficernick]

Hi Mike, nice work, have you had it running yet? Video video video

[Mad_Mike]

The downside is, it doesnt work. Nothing, there is no internal combustion going on in this internal combustion engine. I tried everything i could think of it cant even get it to pop never alone move. I tried gas first but to no avail, i did get some combustion but that was while testing the spark and my freind lost some arm hairs trying to help. The only kinetic movement i got was when the engine was upside down and the cyliner filled with meths fumes. I then inserted the piston fired the igniton and the piston popped out like a bullet, it fortunatly richoceted somewhere of the engine i hit the table, quite lucky actually because my fingers were near and it wouldve hurt. With that i gave up on gas and went with a vapour carb using a coffee jar and meths, it seemed hopeful, i set up outside but it didnt work. I not suprised that it doesnt work and it was a long shot but im still pretty disapointed none the less. 

[pettyofficernick]

Don't give up. Do you have compression? Are the valves sealing properly? ( you could try lapping them in with some fine grinding paste). Is the piston a snug enough fit in the cylinder to prevent gas from escaping down the sides of the piston? ( O ring would solve that). Timing may be an issue, both valve and ignition. Internal combustion engines are built to much closer tolerances than steam engines, so without the facilities to machine close fitting parts, you will have to apply your boundless ingenuity to finding an alternative way of getting a good seal. It will go eventually, keep at it.
Best wishes,
Nick.

[pettyofficernick]

Found you a timing diagram and some other info, including some words from  Edgar T Westbury model ic engine builder of note which may help in your experiments.
http://yanswerz.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/valve-timing-diagram-of-four-stroke.html

http://modelenginenews.org/etw/systeme_loyal.html

[Mad_Mike]

to get round the bad tolerances ive used a bit of grease. the engine works welk enough to suck up water and the valves seal tight enough that the water is forced downwards passed the piston during the compression stroke, it is leaky and the compression isnt great but i expect that once the engine is up to speed the piston will rise faster and compress quicker than the charge can escape. The timing isnt bad, its not perfect by any means but i cant even get a burn going, Ive just tried again. I used gas and wd40. Ive even tried filling gas into the cylinder threw the exhaust port and lighting it with a flame and it still wont pop.Not even after the gas has leaked out and at no point during that leaking did the mix get to right ratio to produce the slightest flash. When i was experimenting with an open cylinder it did.
As of the minute the spark plug earths on the engine, well its not a spark plug but a peice of wire that sticks into the engine and when it fires the current arks to the wall. Its only a small ark though. that still wouldnt explain why the a flame in an open exhaust port didnt work mind. But im thinking that if i drilled and inserted the negative of the coil straight into the engine then the spark would arc straight accross between the 2 points. Its a lot of faff though and could either work or ruin the engine completely. Ill try again after some sleep.

[slug]

hats off to you- i think you are very clever,back to the industrial reveloution, this is how it all started. you will suceed.keep it up ---slug

[frazer heslop]

Hi Mike, Have a look for rimfire spark plugs they are very easy to make I use very small fuses for the insulators just peel the ends off and you have the start of a plug
You will get there I.C engines can be a bit challenging to say the least
kind regards
frazer

[Mad_Mike]

not satisfied with defeat i had one last go. I  channeled both the negative and the positive wires of the coil to two spark plugs in the cylinder. The compact design of the cylinder did not allow the ark to jump between the 2 but rather ark onto the combustion chamber first from the poitive and then from the combustion chamber back to the negative. It affectively made 2 arcs. I tested the ability to start combustion by filling the cylinder with gas from my soldering iron, the soldering iron premixes the air and gas prior exiting the nozzle so when i filled the cylinder the gas ignited instantly by the spark plugs. I managed to work out how long to fill the cylinder to get good combustion and each time the spark plugs fired and ignited. It was hopeful so i reassembled the engine with the 2 spark plugs and ran the engine straight off the nozzle of the soldering iron.
Once again no combustion was going on in side the engine. With the gas flowing threw i ignited the exhaust port and hoped that it might possibly flame back into the engine but instead it acted like a burner  . With the crank disconnected from the piston if i fill the cylinder then insert the piston inside i can get the engine to combust and it works like a cannon with the piston flying out. Even when i spin the crank with the drill with the fuel flowing its not cyling.
I dont know whats wrong with it so i cant fix it, but whats worse is i cant learn from my mistakes when i want to try again. Ive salvaged the igniton for later and put the engine in the box of spares.
Nevermind   

[grendel]

it might just be a timing issue, I know with cars timing is critical to within a degree or so, at least you are proving the concept, you've got a spark to ignite the fuel in the cylinder.
Grendel

[frazer heslop]

Give it a go on steam ?

[Mad_Mike]

I tied again lol determined not to be beaten and salvaged the engine from the spares box. I reasembled it. I messed around with the fueling again by connecting a tube to the intake port and then to the soldering iron. But for some reason it entered my head to test the internal combustion by chaning the spark plug timing so that it fired on the intake stroke. Miraculously it fired!! Pathetic and barely noticeable it was but it was actutally working. I put my finger over the tube and could feel a back pressure, i put against it my ear and surely enough a slight pressure was popping out. I then tried meths and i got the same result. I tried again with the timing set the power stroke and the only noticable physical force i could see was a slight spitting at the exhaust port. Even though i dont have a running engine i do have ignition and i do have internal combustion. The problem is that the piston and valves are too leaky to get if any compression, and what power is made leaks out. This is in someway a succes, at least now i know where to make the ammendments when i have a go next time. 

[pettyofficernick]

Hi Mike, try filing a groove around the piston and using an o ring or ptfe tape to seal the piston, and do something similar to the valves, you never know. Ignition timing is usually set to fire a couple of degrees before TDC, so maybe a bit more fiddling with the ignition timing will also help.

[Mad_Mike]

Hi Mike, try filing a groove around the piston and using an o ring or ptfe tape to seal the piston, and do something similar to the valves, you never know. Ignition timing is usually set to fire a couple of degrees before TDC, so maybe a bit more fiddling with the ignition timing will also help.

ive taken youe advice and given it a go. I used heat shrink of the valves so they sit on something soft, it worked quite well actually. The piston i filed out a groove, i tried an oring but it wouldnt stay in the grove, i then tried string soaked in grease and that wouldnt fit. I eventually tried metal epoxy putty. I put the putty in the grove then forced the piston into the cylinder, the cylinder sheared off the excess putty around the piston. Upon reasemmbly i blocked and filled as many pin holes as i could find. Turning the engine over the seals between the valves and pistons were a lof better but still not brilliant, as a result i got some occasional rotation of the crank this time. All 5 degrees of it lol
Something at least anyway. It makes sense now to start again maybe even with plastic card.

[frazer heslop]

Hi Mike make a Lapping tool for the bore and one for the piston .The one for the cylinder could be a bit of dowel sanded to fit the bore then load it up with paste I some times use smokers tooth powder and for the piston drill a hole in a bit of wood with a split on one side for a screw so it can be adjusted to lap the piston a bit rough and ready but it works
An O ring is a very good idea I use them on my Hit and Mis engines as they don't get that hot and I cannot be bothered to make piston rings
Keep at it you will get there
cheers
frazer

[Mad_Mike]

sounds like a good plan but it seems the fault now is in the head. The valves still arnt great and im getting leaking threw the sparkplugs. I need to make the engine a little bigger so the tolerances can be a bit more relaxed. Ill try again another day, it took me 5 attempts before i had a working steam engine and they were plasticard.