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Author Topic: vic 96  (Read 5926 times)

django

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vic 96
« on: June 26, 2013, 04:10:10 pm »

Hi I have just had a look over the puffer VIC 96 which is moored up in Chatham what an absolutely stunning boat .Does anyone know if any of the model manufactures make a hull of this type of puffer or a plan thanks    Django
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Neil

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 04:20:34 pm »

Django...can I just make a point before you go looking for a puffer hull for your VIC............
 
VIC's actually weren't puffers in the traditional sense....and their hull shapes were  different  to puffers, especially at the stern..... they were built during the war period as Victualing Inshore Craft (hence VIC ) but pass as "puffers" because of their similarity and because one of them was used in the BBC Para Handy TV progs, because there were no real puffers left.
Puffer hulls can be found regularly on ebay and only the other day a puffer plug came up for sale for producing a mould, but I don't know anyone myself who makes a VIC hull.
 
to see a prog about a real puffer (and not a VIC ) try finding the old comedy film called "Maggie A Puffer's Tale" you'll see the difference between a puffer and a VIC.
 
Neil.
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 05:56:57 pm »


Moutfleet models do two Puffer kits, Models by Design, Kingston Moldings
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django

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 06:41:45 pm »

Thanks for replies I have got a couple of puffers I have made 1 is a Mountfleet kit of Northlight & 1 which I made from a hull bought at a boot fair altering Mountfleets plan to  suit the different scale. I was just hoping that somebody made a hull for Vic 96, its a bit beyond me to completely scratch build one. Thanks   Django
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raflaunches

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 09:03:23 pm »

its a bit beyond me to completely scratch build one. Thanks   Django


Never say never Django, we thought that many years ago. We started off with simple designed vessels like hard chine launches before building round bilge vessels. We actually prefer building round bilge models at the moment you can disguise any imperfections a lot easier than hard chine boats! Especially getting a level and even chine line! May be one day you might change your mind.
Regards


Nick B
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gondolier88

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 02:54:32 pm »

If I was going to pick a first boat to scratch build I don't think you could go far wrong with a puffer hull!! They are supremely simple designs. I'm good friends with the owner of VIC 96, so if you wanted to model that boat in particular I'm sure I could arrange photos of salient bits, as well as out-of-water photos.


Greg
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 04:11:19 pm »

I had a vic-20 many years ago.... not sure it would float tho :)





I'll get me coat  :embarrassed:
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django

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2013, 09:09:10 pm »

Thanks Greg I might take you up on that offer . The puffers are all fantastic to look at & I think that Vic 96 would make a terrific modelling project I have a couple of leads about a plan so fingers crossed     Thanks    Django
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mudway

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 01:56:09 am »

I scrounged this from somewhere years back.
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django

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 12:59:25 pm »

Wow that's excellent thanks very much for you help      Django
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mudway

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2013, 02:04:32 pm »

We both come from the same place.  :-)
 
Will see if the others I tried to load will make it this time.
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gondolier88

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2013, 04:26:39 pm »

A good comparison of the two VIC hull designs here- the bottom photo shows VIC 19, with almost flush sheer and funnel forward of the wheelhouse she is a lot closer to the original 'puffer' design.


Greg
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django

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2013, 05:22:03 pm »

Thanks again Greg , what great photo's    Django
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GAZOU

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 06:39:48 pm »

 ok2
 
hello
it would be nice to make the platting with rivets and sheet metal pressed.
it would be very realistic.
It's hard to do, but the result would be exceptional
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gondolier88

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2013, 06:58:19 pm »

It would, except that the majority were all welded construction.... {:-{
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gondolier88

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2013, 07:05:16 pm »

I must apologise, as I made a 'slight' mistake, it is VIC 56 that my friend owns  :embarrassed: , also kept at Chatham, hence the confusion. Same offer applies of course!


Also, look here on Cochrane's of Selby build list, a number of VIC listed, some with photos.


http://www.gooleships.co.uk/goolesb/goolesb.htm


Greg
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GAZOU

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2013, 07:46:56 pm »

 {-)
sorry for the rivets!
then it must reproduce the welds, it is easier %)
 
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BarryM

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2013, 01:28:11 pm »

It would, except that the majority were all welded construction.... {:-{
Puffers were riveted and certainly all the early Vics also - perhaps a majority?
Have a meander through here http://themackenzies.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/puffers/index.htm
Barry M
 
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django

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2013, 03:17:19 pm »

Certainly is a lot of info about puffers on the internet , & some really good photo's. The name puffer seems to cover a lot of different types. The more I see the more keen I am to make a model of Vic 96 as my next project when I have finished my current build of   Dawnlight which I am making using a hull from Mobile Marine Models
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BarryM

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2013, 04:58:10 pm »

Worth tracking down is 'Last of the Puffermen' by Keith McGinn who spent 40 years working on Puffers until their ultimate decline in the early '90's. Published by Neil Wilson Publishing (www.nwp.co.uk), cover price £9.99, the photos alone are worth the price.
Barry M
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gondolier88

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2013, 09:58:31 pm »

Puffers were riveted and certainly all the early Vics also - perhaps a majority?[/size]Have a meander through here http://themackenzies.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/puffers/index.htm Barry M


Yes, traditional 'puffers' were, however the majority of the VIC's were welded, apart from a few of the early ones as you say.

Great page by the way!

Greg
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BarryM

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2013, 09:05:40 am »

I think some clarification is needed here. 'Puffers' were originally scows used on the Forth & Clyde Canal that were outfitted with non-condensing steam engines and exhausted steam up the lum. Thus they produced a characteristic puffing sound in the manner of a steam locomotive. Once condensing steam plant was introduced, they lost the puffing sound and, logically, could no longer be described as 'Puffers'. However, the term 'Puffer' continued to be used to describe any small mechanically powered cargo vessel trading on the canals of Scotland, the West Coast and Islands with a few operating on the East Coast. Thus the original puffers, their condensing successors, VICs and, the last of the line - diesel coasters - were all generically known in Scotland as 'Puffers'. Different machinery, different designs, different construction but all engaged in the same trade and known as Puffers.
Regards,
Barry M
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2013, 11:20:11 am »

 
Hey Barry,

Do you have any idea what the deficiency saving is between a condensing and non-condensing steam engine is? IE.how much money would the ship owners saved?
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BarryM

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2013, 05:52:09 pm »

 Martin,
What a question! I am possibly putting my neck on the block to be shot down by other marine engineers on the Forum but here goes.
If we are talking 'thermal efficiency', then the earliest puffer engines were single-cylinder, double-acting units exhausting to atmosphere and probably their efficiency was about - I stress the word "about" - 10% and possibly less. When these were replaced with compounded two-cylinder, double-acting engines with the LP exhausting to a condenser, thermal efficiency possibly rose to about 15%. (I believe there was an interim period when some compound engines still exhausted to atmosphere.)
Whatever the aesthetic appeal of steam engines, whether reciprocating or turbine, and even with regenerative condensers, reheat etc., marine steam plant never achieved efficiencies exceeding about 34% for turbine plant and considerably less for reciprocating. The huge heat loss to cooling water circulating through the condenser could never be recouped.
The expansion of the puffers' trading areas from canal to open sea also brought its own technical demands. While operating in the Forth & Clyde canals, the puffers took the boiler feed water they required from the canal itself. Once operations were extended to sea water, feed water had to be carried on board as boilers do not like sea water and will quickly scale-up. (Yes, I know that some early boilers were operated on salt-water feed with heavy blow-down to try and reduce the boiler salinity but it was never successful, always dangerous and led to even more heat loss.) Possibly some shipowners did not like feed water carried on board as it reduced space for cargo.
As for how much money the shipowner saved in coal, I couldn’t put a figure on it partly because I’m unfamiliar with 19th C./20th C. coal prices and consumption could vary widely not least because of bunker quality. What I would say is that nothing attracts a shipowners attention like an innovation that reduces his overheads.
A Puffers coal consumption might also vary because of the unofficial access hatch that sometimes appeared between cargo hold and engine room. It was not unknown for a cargo of coal to mysteriously reduce on passage and, allegedly twelve tons went AWOL while one vessel was navigating from Troon to Coll. En route, the puffer put into Tobermory supposedly to trim cargo but shortly after the local coal merchant, at a time of post-war coal shortage, had ample stocks to sell. The case went to court but nothing was proved. 
It was a different world.
Barry M
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: vic 96
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2013, 09:36:16 pm »


GREAT post Barry, thanks!  :-))
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