Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Working naval gun models  (Read 6750 times)

rweust

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Working naval gun models
« on: December 01, 2013, 12:39:55 pm »


Three of these 150 mm naval open gun turrets were originally placed at the HrMs Soemba, a Dutch gun sloop from 1925.

I am making a model of this sloop, scale 1:50. These model guns fire, due to a high voltage circuit in the turret, fed by a 1,5V AAA battery, and a 5/4 mm firing tube in front of the barrel.

These turrets are controlled by a circuit with two PIC 16F648A microprocessors steering the 6 servo's and 3 relays. In total this combat controller will be capable of steering 12 servo's, 4 relays (on circuit board), 4 external relays, 2 powerleds, 1 speaker and has one optional output for a servo or relay. The controller needs only two servo channel inputs from the receiver.

Fun to make, hopefully fun to watch.

Regards,
Robert.

http://youtu.be/x2YH0ni1CR0

Logged
Robert.

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,892
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2013, 12:47:51 pm »

Very good!

Do you have more details on the high voltage circuit for the guns, please?

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

rweust

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2013, 12:50:05 pm »

If I can figure out how to place a picture on this forum, can you give me a tip?
Logged
Robert.

madrob

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,134
  • Location: Swinton ..Rotherham
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2013, 01:07:08 pm »

That's brilliant
Logged

rweust

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2013, 01:09:33 pm »

If you can manage the Dutch language a bit, there's a topic (with pictures) on:

http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/marineschepen/196452-werkend-scheepsgeschut-ii-2.html

I can send you an answer in a personal message also.
I did some posting on this forum in 2010, but can't remember how to upload the pictures. Do you really need Imageshack and a URL or can you post a picture directly?
Logged
Robert.

rweust

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2013, 01:09:56 pm »

Logged
Robert.

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,892
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2013, 01:18:27 pm »

The way I do it: my photos are hosted elsewhere (own URL - any hosting site and Facebook works too), and I type in the address that's requested after you click the Insert Image link.

Andy


Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,892
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2013, 01:27:23 pm »

If you can manage the Dutch language a bit...

I can't, but Google Translate does ok. Fascinating stuff - many thanks for giving me ideasO0

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Rottweiler

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,160
  • Location: Carharrack Cornwall
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2013, 07:24:06 pm »

Very clever bit of kit! I would love to adapt it for my 8x15inch guns on HMS RAMILLIES.I hope you will be kind enough to help me out if I PM you for instructions?
Many Thanks,
Mick F

Logged

rweust

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2013, 08:07:01 pm »

The way I do it: my photos are hosted elsewhere (own URL - any hosting site and Facebook works too), and I type in the address that's requested after you click the Insert Image link.

Andy

Thanks for the help Andy, also glad to help you with idea's. This help is what all online forums are for.

As I remember it, there also used to be a possibility in this forum to upload (small) images directly, without the use of links. I tried to find this possibility, but apparently it’s changed or my memory is fooling me. You found the Dutch site and deciphered it with Google translate, great job. For those who didn’t, I like to share some pictures.


The Dutch gun sloop HrMs. Soemba from 1925 im starting to build.


She was armoured with 3 of these 150mm naval guns in open turrets.



A Dutchman called Han posted an idea to fire small guns with the help of a plasma discharge. He used electronics from the flash of a disposable camera to generate the high voltage and ignite the flash (and bang) in an open firing tube (outside diameter 5mm). I took some experimenting with the measures of the tube, but it works. The last problem I encountered was the wear of the ignition pin (1mm diameter) in the middle. It was blasted almost away after 50 till 100 shots, after which ignition stopped. I made this pin replaceable with a print connector and have to wait how this holds.


The high voltage circuit board.


The circuit (R2 is 220 Ohm by the way). You better check the flash circuit of the disposable camera (mostly they work like this, but not always).


The firing tube in the PVC barrel. The insolation between the halfs is 1 mm polystyrene.


A little tool to help the PS glue to the firing tube.


The turret design.












The turret builded, without the armour cover. The 1,5V AAA battery is visable to provide the high voltage (340V).


Turrets mounted on a piece of plywood for testing.


Under deck there's the azimuth servo (the rest is in the turret). Also a little board is made for the connections, but also for the necessary  varistors (11V) over the servo supply and signal. This to prevent any interference from high voltage peaks with the servo or microprocessor.  The 6V servo supplies are also uncoupled by a 1 Ohm resistor and a 470 uF elco.

I will show you the controller for the turrets (and more) later.

With regards,
Robert.




Logged
Robert.

rweust

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2013, 08:14:20 pm »

Usefull tip.

Sorry madrob,

I was irritated by the fact that I couldn’t upload a picture directly and thought your remark was meant a bit cynical. Now, having a second glance at it, I probably misinterpreted it.

With regards,
Robert.
Logged
Robert.

Tug-Kenny RIP

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,625
  • Location: Newport. S Wales
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2013, 08:42:58 pm »


Very impressive guns.    :-))




To post pictures direct on the forum click on  'Attachments'  under your letter.

Click on  'Browse'  to select a picture from your computer

For more pictures click on   'more attachments'

Click on   'Preview'  to make sure they are there before posting.

Cheers

Ken

Logged
Despite the high cost of living   .......... It remains popular

rweust

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2013, 10:01:08 pm »

To post pictures direct on the forum click on  'Attachments'  under your letter.

Found it! Can't believe I missed it, thank you Ken.

The controller (I don't know the English word for it, is it a combat controller or a fire controller?) is equipped with two PIC 16F648A microcontrollers.







The design of the controller is made up in the beautiful, free program: DesignSpark.

They read out, each microcontroller parallel, two channels from the receiver. The idea is to make it as realistic as possible. The stick up-down on the transmitter sets the elevation of the target. The stick right-left controls the azimuth of the target. By pointing out the target you can make the linked guns (or search lights) turn or elevate. If you link them they will start moving to the target. If you unlink them they will seek up their resting position.

This linking or unlinking of the turrets is done by a short diagonal move of the stick, left-down. The guns will show they are linked by elevating the barrel a bit. There is an order in linking: A-turret, A+B turret, A+B+Y turret, Y-turret, no-turret. A longer left-down movement will reset and unlink everything. The target is then reset at 0 degrees, elevation 0.

The target is pointed out a bit faster than the speed of the turrets. This makes the movement realistic. The reach of the turrets is limited (example Y-turret: 45-315 degrees). If they reach the end of their turning possibilities, they stop. If the target swings to the other side of the ship, they will swing over to the other limit of their reach and wait for the target to come into reach here. This is shown on the video with the Y-turret when the target swings over the bow.

http://youtu.be/x2YH0ni1CR0

Only guns that are linked and on target can fire. If they wait for the target to come into reach or are still busy moving to the target, they won’t fire. Firing is triggered by the short diagonal stick movement, right-down. The barrels make a quick movement up when firing, to simulate the kick. There’s also a loading time programmed, when still loading the guns won’t fire (also necessary for the charging of the high voltage elco with 340V).

There are a lot more outputs to be programmed. The Soemba had a 75 mm gun also used against aircrafts and two search lights. They will use the same linking to target technic. I still have 5 more diagonal orders left (short and long).

Programming is performed in Proton (basic, with a large library) and a PICKit 2 interface.





Robert.

Logged
Robert.

Pondweed

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • Model Boat Mayhem Forum is Great!
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2013, 03:07:22 pm »

I'm very impressed when people take the hobby to an extreme but they do it well. The sight of 3 turrets all training and then firing is 10/10
Logged

john44

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,659
  • member of the Potteries Model boat club
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 07:37:20 pm »

Marvelous. :-))

john
Logged

Rob47

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,104
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Gloucester
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 09:56:44 pm »

Now all you have to do is set up a production line and take orders :-))

Very impressive but sadly electronics and me do not mix  <:(
Logged
I will finish this model

rweust

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Re: Working naval gun models
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2013, 11:07:24 pm »

 Thanks for all the kind reply,

I already got some questions for circuit boards, parts and so on. I would like to help everybody. My documentation or advise are free and always gladly provided, but I regretfully do lack the time to make circuit boards or program microprocessors for members and others. I'm not even finished with programming the controller myself and barely started with my model of the HrMs Soemba.

If it's the high voltage circuit you would like to build, I recommend you start with buying a cheap disposable camera, open it and figure out how the flash circuit works. I should work like my circuit published, but they are not all exactly the same. The parts (high voltage transformers, detonation coils, etc.) can also have different sizes, so the chance is really present that my printed circuit board is useless.

Circuit boards are made by UV exposure through a print on a transparent sheet, and etched in an etching machine. You need some equipment for that, but you can also etch in a glass (oven) tray you carefully heat on an old electric stove (this is the way I started) and draw the print directly on the copper with an etch resistant liner. It's easier than it appears to make your own circuit board and this is a simple and small one to practice it on. If you have trouble with this, you can always use this pre-drilled copper lined experimenting boards to build your circuit on.

If you want to etch more circuit boards yourself (or do some etching on brass model parts out of sheet metal), you can better buy the gear  (I spent about EUR 190 for the UV lighting kit and etching machine together). A free program to draw the circuit boards and print the prints for UV exposure on transparent overhead sheets is the already named DesignSpark.

Keep in mind that some parts of the guns need a lathe to build (turret bearings, gun barrels, etc.) The ignition electrodes have to be placed precisely in the accurate made holders and have to be replaceable. Without a (small) lathe it won't be easy to build them.



If you are interested in the microprocessor controller circuit board, please keep in mind that you do need programming equipment to make it work. The servos all have to be adjusted and lined out, this means that initiations and settings have to be changed in the program. You regretfully can't make it work with only the circuit board and a pre-programmed PIC. A wonderfull Dutch site to learn PIC microprocessor programming on is: www.picbasic.nl . This site is written and maintained by Frits K. (if he isn't a teacher, he really missed his profession), also in the English language available (you British are so lucky sometimes). It takes some time, but is fun to do.

The development suite for the software, Proton, has a free version, but the amount of programming words is limited (to small for this application). The full version costs about EUR 170,-. The PICKit programmer I bought for EUR 35,-. There are also other languages (C++) for programming PIC's , some for free.

It's no rocket science and great fun to do, but it costs time. If you don't have the experience, but want to build this or parts of it, please do. But do realize it takes time and you have to invest in the right steps in the right order.

Have great fun.  :-))


Logged
Robert.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.159 seconds with 18 queries.