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[para_handy]

how is the best way to secure wheelhouse so it can be easily accessed

[Bob K]

I assume you mean removed for access?   Build a coaming on deck at least 1/4" tall around the inside profile of your superstructure and a good fit. You can then just pull off the wheelhouse and the coaming helps prevent water getting inside the boat.

[para_handy]

do you not need any type of fixing to secure it

[Bob K]

If the coaming on the deck is continuous, at least 1/4" high, and a good slide-on fit, you shouldn't need any fixings.  The superstructure should fit snuggly like the lid of a box.

[DavieTait]

small rare earth magnets ( 2mm diameter approx 1mm thick ) one at each corner will hold it in place , sounds too small BUT magnets that size can pick up my glasses with ease so more than strong enough to keep the casin attached ( especially up in the Blue Toon at the Lido !!)

[Colin Bishop]

Personally I would never rely on a push fit superstructure. I have seen too many become dislodged over the years due to collisions or simply because the boat has been tossed about in rough conditions resulting in the sinking of the model. It can be disconcerting to see how easily an apparently snugly located superstructure can pop off if the hull is bashed by another boat or the model gets tossed about in a chop as I saw at one Mayhem meeting a while back.

It is very simple to provide a mechanical fixing with a bit of ingenuity. My Deans Medea steam yacht has a tiny hole drilled through the foremast into the superstructure face into which I push a dressmaker's pin. A similar arrangement at the back of the superstructure using a securely mounted deck ventilator fixes the after end in place.

Coamings are also very desirable to stop water on deck finding its way below but I would not rely on them to keep the superstructure in place.

Magnets are OK up to a point but if you have ones sufficient to really fix the superstructure in place then it needs a bit of a wrench to break the connection which is generally not kind to delicate fittings etc.

Photos below show a push fit superstructure being tossed off in choppy conditions.

Colin

[Neil]

PARA.........that scenario shown above seldom happens, because the majority of people sailing boats hardly ever put them into water like that, unless they are brave or foolish.......and either way they should have made the combings tighter fit.....In fact the majority of model sailors that I have come across at club meetings won't even get their boat out of the car if there is a hint of rain, never mind a wind above force 2.

I have sailed on probably the roughest man made lake in this country, Fleetwood, in all sorts of weather with all sorts of boats,........my caldercraft puffer was run down by an 8'6" Battle class destroyer, and just bobbed up like a cork............because I made the combing of substantial height..........anything between 20 -25mm high from the deck, and a fit like a latex glove.........and never had a top blow off........

In fact in the 50 years I have been watching and sailing at Fleetwood in all weathers, have never seen a superstructure blow off or washed off yet........no magnets, no screws ,....no fittings, just a good combing rising FROM THE DECK , ( not vice versa......i.e. glued to the superstructure and sliding down into the deck orifice.....that's just courting disaster) with a superstructure tightly slotting over it..................and I have built a few models in my time.

[Tug-Kenny RIP]

Horrendous ...................

An excellent tip Colin.  I shall   "pin"  mine immediately.   

Cheers

ken

[Colin Bishop]

Neil,

People can be caught out. The pics above were taken at an MPBA Scale Final at Wicksteed Park. The conditions on the course were fine until a squall suddenly came through and piled up a sudden vicious chop at the narrow end of the pond which amplified the effect as the waves bounced off the concrete. I think three boats went down and mine only just reached the bank half full of water from being tossed on its beam ends. Those boats not on that part of the course managed to avoid it.

No, it doesn't happen often but it's like putting a fuse in your electrics, unlikely you will need it but if you do then it will save you a lot of grief. A few years back I saw a hovercraft at Beale Park run smack into a scale boat knocking the superstructure right off, both the boat and upperworks instantly disappeared into around 30 feet of murky water. Had the superstructure been firmly attached the boat would have been damaged but probably not sunk.

GRP and plastic hulls have a tendency to temporarily deform if struck and not adequately supported inside and this can be enough to 'pop' off the superstructure.

Anyway, all I am saying is that this is what I do for a bit of extra peace of mind so where is the harm in doing that? As far as others are concerned it is just a suggestion to consider so no need to rubbish it. If you run a small model then there often isn't room for a high coaming inside anyway.

Colin

[chas]

Hi Colin, I like your method. I lost a top in a colision years ago. If something can go wrong, it will.
 Chas

[raflaunches]

I remember that happening, that freak weather squall claimed the most model boats to be sunk at Wicksteed in one day!


My Dad's submarine superstructure is bolted on and it's a surface runner, a lot of my boats are the slot on style superstructures however the big difference that they are all quite big models and the superstructures are quite heavy and big so it requires a massive shock to move them off.
I'm now learning that smaller scales require a different way of thinking especially on my new build which has four access hatches that are flush but need to be water tight and not easy to fall off.

[Colin Bishop]

My models are normally on the small side so are more vulnerable to coming off worse in a collision. Also, being small, the topsides tend to be pretty lightweight which is another reason to ensure they are secure. As raflaunches says, the bigger the model the less the chance of the top coming off but if the model is flung about too much then inertia can still give a nasty surprise. (No, not you Dave!)

Colin

[Stavros]

The simplest and cheapest way is ALLWAYS the best......use an old fasioned net curtain track holder you all know the oln the old Question mark screw...and use an elastic band there will be plenty around the floor around outside your houses dropped by your frendly postperson.......never had one fall off using this method and cheap as chips to replace
 
 
Dave

[Neil]

Comments - Please do post off topic discussions here on Mayhem - Admin

[Neil]

I think the comments about coamings were very relevant to the topic, especially the experience of the Scottish lads sailing open lochs ...................and as |I have had much experience of building myself especially with coamings................why has this post been lifted.........it was most helpful to others.

ARE WE NO LONGER ABLE TO  DISCUSS OTHER PERSONS COMMENTS ANYMORE???

[Martin (Admin)]

On that matter, No.

If you have issues with another person or company, take it up with them direct, not here on Mayhem.


Admin

[Neil]

The comments I was referring to martin, were those about flexing hulls, combings and other technical points which could allow a superstructure to pop off...........nothing more............and experience counts.

[Martin (Admin)]

Repost that part please Neil.

[Neil]

Repost that part please Neil.





nah, sorry Martin, can't be bothered.....shouldn't have been removed in the first place..............life's far to short to re iterate especially when others think they know more than me and yet never show any evidence of it other than what they read........I have seen absolutely no practical knowledge or experience imparted to others ever, and yet you want me to go over mine again.sorry, but the word pants comes to mind.

[Martin (Admin)]

Photos below show a push fit superstructure being tossed off in choppy conditions.
 Colin

How on earth did that get through the 'Big Brother' word censorship board?!?! 

[tigertiger]

One will always slip through.

[Colin Bishop]

One will always slip through.

As the Bishop said to the Actress.... (no relation  )

[inertia]

I take Neil's point about a decent-sized coaming, but 25mm is not always practical on models where, for example, there are glazed panels close to the deck which would be obscured from the inside - or where there isn't 25mm between the deck and the cabin roof! I don't sail my models in choppy conditions so I don't make any special provision for holding down the superstructure. I think it's a matter for common sense - and magnets, elastic bands, pins and anything else a fertile imagination can contrive.

As for things getting past censors, I'm given some succour by the fact that it still happens.....................
(Yes - I still remember......)
DM

[Bob K]

As Dave says, don't sail a given model if it's too windy or choppy for it.  I check the BBC Weather for wind strengths etc, and rain.  My smaller ships have rare earth magnet hatches which work well if you balance hold-down against pull to get them off, but only used in 10 mph winds or less due to their size. Medium size with good freeboard I use up to 15 mph.  Much over 15 mph I won't risk choppy seas.  My Springer is the most sea resistant, up to 18 in practice, and that has a very deep coaming with a nice tight fit superstructure.

at 1/96 scale 11.5 mph is equivalent to a hurricane.

PS:  Magnets can be really solid if the right size and quantity used, ensuring metal to metal unpainted contact.   

[Colin Bishop]

I certainly have no issues with high coamings and substantial superstructures on larger models but, as Dave says, they are not always practical on smaller boats such as my Deans Medea Steam Yacht kit for example. So it's horses for courses really. My suggestion is simply a practical belt and braces solution that is effective on small to medium models and costs nothing to do.

As far as hull distortion is concerned, kits are produced down to a price and the smaller ones often don't have all the internal reinforcement that 'gurus' with 50 years of 'experience' would think desirable. People build them out of the box in accordance with the instructions but a bang on a small model can indeed 'ping' the hull and maybe even pop joints if the right adhesive hasn't been used. I usually reinforce mine, having the required 50 years of experience(!), but most people will quite reasonably follow the manufacturer's instructions which should produce a perfectly serviceable model but not one that is built to be rammed!

I don't think anyone sets out to run their boat in marginal conditions but it is still easy to be caught out. It might be calm by the bank but when you venture further out on the lake the model could be caught by a gust of wind and if it is a bit 'tender' then you can suddenly find yourself in trouble. It's the same with full size sailing. You can be on a reach with wind over tide and perfectly comfortable without realising that the wind is slowly increasing but then you need to turn and maybe the tide has changed and you suddenly find yourself in quite a nasty situation. Experience reduces the risk but does not prevent it altogether.

Experienced or not, everyone can be caught out or make a mistake, none of us are perfect!

Colin