Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[BrianB6]

From the ABC Melbourne:
 Victoria's road authority will pay back motorists who did not receive notices to renew their registration, and were then penalised for driving unregistered vehicles.  (some over $2,000)

Since windscreen stickers have been phased out, VicRoads sends notices to drivers telling them to renew their registration.
But many drivers have complained they never received a letter and were unaware they were driving unregistered cars until they were caught by police.
A similar thing happened in 2014 after about 15,000 driving licence renewals were not sent out and about 8,000 customers did not renew as a result, and 768 received a fine.
 




 

[FsASTSyd1]

I suppose as long as the DVLA send out a renewal notice, do they? or you have paid the tax by direct debit  everything is OK. But is this increase in untaxed vehicles because the DVLA is not notifying or are people ignoring any thought of the matter. On the other subject of putting the tax on fuel, cannot see it changing after all the government is getting two bites at the cherry isn't it. The bigger your vehicles engine (generally) the more the annual tax and within reason the bigger the engine, and indeed the more miles you cover, the more fuel you will need so you are paying more tax that way. Seen many suggestions of course of dump the RFL and put a couple of pence on fuel, does anybody think it would be a couple of pence, when this was banded about and fuel was only 3/6 a gallon (4P a Litre in new money) it was also suggested that between 15 and 30% would need to be added to that price never mind anything else that has changed since. 
[/size]Syd J

[Colin Bishop]

Isn't it interesting just how much we are now all dependent upon reminders? This morning I had emails asking me to read my gas and electricity meters and telling me that my library books would soon become overdue. Once upon a time it was our responsibility to remember these things but now the onus has shifted to the 'authorities' who are 'to blame' if they don't remind us.

Although convenient, it's creeping infantilism in some ways. Another example is the proliferation of speed limits everywhere, many of which are unnecessary. Drivers are no longer considered to be sufficiently competent to navigate their vehicles with due care and attention and in accordance with the prevailing conditions. Take away people's responsibility and they regress into idiocy!

Colin

[Tug Fanatic]

I guess the argument would go that road tax gives you the right to use the road - a fixed cost - and that fuel tax is a variable cost that reflects your usage. Either way it is just a tax and they will get the money from you in some way.


I agree with Colin Bishop about speed limits and the fact that they now change many times in short lengths of road. There is s stretch or road around here that used to be national speed limit - 60mph. It is now 60 then 30 then 40 then 30 then 40 then 50. Very reasonable over 10 miles you might think but this all happens in two miles. At the same time they have reduced the size of speed limit change signs so that they are little bigger than repeaters. The camera vans and police radar gun operators are having a field day. It is becoming harder to be law abiding.

[Colin Bishop]

Quite right that if you change the system the total tax take is likely to remain the same (or may rise as the government of the day rarely passes up the opportunity to introduce a stealth tax rise.)

Any changes will almost inevitably bear more heavily on some people and less on others. There is no 'right' answer - just potential options, each of which have consequences, some of which can be unexpected.

If you want simplified tax collection then put it all on fuel. If not then you have to accept the administrative overheads associated with raising a flat rate tax contribution for each class of vehicle irrespective of how it is used.

Colin

[inertia]

Colin

For too many people I'm afraid idiocy is an aspiration rather than an affliction.

In circumstances like these the law always puts the responsibility onto the potential miscreant not to transgress. For example, the offence never was a failure to have a current tax disc - it was a failure to display it. No amount of "it's in the post", "I forgot to fix it into the car", "the dog's eaten it", "I was abused as a child" etc can mitigate the fact that the damned thing wasn't where it was supposed to be. Similarly no-one was ever prosecuted for failing to post a tax return; the offence is failing to render one (to the appropriate address). In neither case could there be any "excuse" - these are absolute offences. It's unfortunate that magistrates and judges seem to have been given powers to mitigate in certain offences when it comes to sentencing (BTW nice one, Oscar... ). That has set off the media in pursuit of "justice" whenever some crime is perceived as not entirely the fault of the person who committed it. Now the presumption is that this culpable third party should include government agencies for not reminding us of our own obligations. It's said that ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. In that case why should stupidity or irresponsibility be treated with any more leniency?

Yes - DVLA does still send out road tax reminders - I had one just this week. Untaxed vehicles are by definition also uninsured, and so anyone who has an accident involving one of these is up a gumtree when it comes to redress - or at least a long way up a certain smelly creek with a very small paddle. As regards prosecuting those who run untaxed vehicles, it is surely not beyond the wit of man to produce from DVLA's database a list of cars which were taxed in the immediately preceding year but have no current tax or SORN declaration. This list could give names, addresses, postcodes, car reg numbers - in fact everything necessary for an authorised agency to identify and seize untaxed cars and prosecute their keepers. There's even a widely-used computer system called ANPR which will spot and flag up any of these cars as they pass by a roadside camera. How's that for an absolute offence?

What's lacking is the will to do it.... Now that IS the fault of government and its agencies. I think I'll write to The Times...

DM

PS Speaking as a former revenue officer I can only remind you of the cardinal rule of taxation: Heads I win; Tails you lose. (You can have that reminder on the house).

[Tug Fanatic]

Have you ever noticed that a fair tax is one that I don't have to pay and an unfair tax is one that I do? 

[FsASTSyd1]

Speed Limits. Maybe I shouldn't say it but I remember when, apart from I think it was the Royal Parks, there was only one limit. 30MPH as marked up for towns and villages. Remember covering 90% of what was then the M1 at more than a 100mph(Try not to go on it at all these days) trusty old BSA Super Rocket needed a week to recover.

[grendel]

How does it? The minimum wage cleaner who has to travel 20 miles to work in his old Corsa will suddenly be paying considerably more tax than the school run mum in her £34,000 Audi Q5. Mr Corsa won't be able to afford to work anymore and will have to go on the dole. Makes perfect sense to me.

I would certainly be poorer, at 124 miles per day, despite having a reasonably efficient car I still pay the full (old) amount as my car is pre emmissions tax, despite every year acing the emmissions part of the test, I am happy today as our local asda has just gone below £1.00 a gallon for the first time in years. I have old cars because its greener to not keep buying new ones (even if they are more efficient) until the old ones wear out.
Grendel

[grendel]

I do see the enforcment car with its cameras on the M2 at least once or twice a month, monitoring the traffic from Kent into London.

[Colin Bishop]

That's another balanced argument Grendel, at what point do the overall emissions associated with manufacturing a new car offset the higher emission levels of keeping an old one on the road? I must confess that I wasn't sad to see my old pre DPF Mondeo go as the amount of soot it was chucking out the back under acceleration was becoming socially embarrassing yet the engine was running to spec.

My present Mazda 6 petrol 2 litre is giving me 43mpg overall which isn't bad. Much nicer car too!

Colin

[inertia]

Have you ever noticed that a fair tax is one that I don't have to pay and an unfair tax is one that I do? 

The only fair tax is one that EVERYONE has to pay and can't simply avoid by employing an expensive tax adviser.
Ah! Them were 't days! I used to love tax advisers (or "failed tax inspectors" as we knew them); I'd have one for breakfast, two for lunch and generally five or six for dinner. 
DM

[davidm1945]

The only fair tax is one that EVERYONE has to pay

I think that was the Poll Tax - the one that did for Maggie Thatcher 'cos NOBODY wanted to pay it!


Dave

[Grumpy Dave]

It is no longer Road fund tax it is a tax on the pollution you create. Electric and hybrid cars pay no tax. I don't pay tax on my pre 72 Landrovers.Probably because the don't create pollution. I don't have to MOT my 58 Landrover.

[Plastic - RIP]

It is no longer Road fund tax it is a tax on the pollution you create. Electric and hybrid cars pay no tax. I don't pay tax on my pre 72 Landrovers.Probably because the don't create pollution. I don't have to MOT my 58 Landrover.

They did that for 2 reasons - 1st was to link everything to global waming / global cooling / climate change or whatever eco-tax bandwagon and the 2nd was because it was becoming more and more obvious that the 'road tax' was not being spent on repairing roads.

[Liverbudgie2]

The only way to beat this road tax malarkey though is to find a per 1973 vehicle. I've had one since April 1977 though, she "Demelza" that is, has been laid up since October 1986. This year though I decided that after my little "episode" in January it was now or never. So I enrolled on a car restoration course at Liverpool Community College to do the work.

To wind you lot even more, I was informed by another "student" that if I wanted to do more than three hours a week I could enrol on the daytime course but to do I would have to apply for a "student grant".  This I did and last week I began on the daytime course, the resulting grant BTW is £5,400+. The real downside is that it is paid to the college and not to me 

[Subculture]

Actually pre '75 now. The freeze was taken off a couple of budgets back.

[imsinking]

Well, I built my own KITCAR in 1985 , and still have it . . . this 'road tax' discussion really wound me up and (like an IDIOT) I'd worked out what it's cost me in taxation , made a montage of the tax discs over a photo & posted it on our JAGO OWNERS website  . . . .

         it was a STUPID thing to do    I was quite happy in ignorance . . . 
NOW fuel prices are in the frame , way back I wrote to our 'Obedient Servants' pointing out that TWO THIRDS of the price of fuel is DUTY and their taxing a tax, the VAT therefore should be on the base price of the fuel . . . all to no avail . . .
The DVLA dont want to know about it being tax exempt either     
"Being a 'Q' prefix states 'indeterminate year of manufacture' so in other words I CAN SWIVEL ON IT . . .
Bill

[madboats]

One point seems to have been missed on road tax to be added to the price at the pump.
Has pointed out haulage contractors would be hard hit with the extra cost as most of what we buy in the shops or online comes by road would that cost filter its way down to cost of the products?

[inertia]

One point seems to have been missed on road tax to be added to the price at the pump.
Has pointed out haulage contractors would be hard hit with the extra cost as most of what we buy in the shops or online comes by road would that cost filter its way down to cost of the products?

See Reply #17:
That would put a huge jump into transport costs and, in turn, inflation - so the government will always keep it separate.
The answer to your question would seem to be "yes". (Do try to keep up).

And now - Rubbing salt into the wound #5:
From its inception in 1973 until November 1974 the VAT rate on road fuel of any type was 0% (as a type of fuel). Since then it's had every positive rate of VAT apart from the present 5% rate - which is for fuel... Makes you want to cry, doesn't it?

DM

[Perkasaman2]

Perhaps the government should cancel V E D then carpet the road system with speed cameras and let all the  Range Rover, BMW and Audi owners make up the shortfall in fines.     

[Colin Bishop]

Perhaps the government should cancel V E D then carpet the road system with speed cameras and let all the  Range Rover, BMW and Audi owners make up the shortfall in fines'

I think it is more likely to be the local boy racers in overstressed Corsas actually.....

[Netleyned]

I think it is more likely to be the local boy racers in overstressed Corsas actually.....

Unless you happen to live in Fife East Neuk where
they all drive Scoobies 


Ned

[Perkasaman2]

I'm happy to add these extras to my list. For the sake of brevity lets agree on  'boy racers and wannabes' to cover the rest. 

[sparkey]

   Walking on the way back from the doctors this morning(the nice medic says I must do 20mins walking every day), I tried to total up the cost of all the road tax of the cars I past,what with the Chelsea tractors,high end BMWs Auldi's and the odd Bentley it came to a few bob,the fact that anyone would need a 4x4 in Wandsworth puzzles me when the furthest they go is the school run or to get their nails done........Ray.