Topic: Bolt/Rivet heads on 1/12 Severn (Read 10550 times)

lesfac · « **on:** January 08, 2016, 01:10:14 pm »

I am just starting a Speedline 1/12 Severn and lots of questions are popping up as I scan the tasks ahead.
Can anyone tell me about the rivets/bolts that need to be on the model? I am not talking about the dummy hexagon headed bolts that are supplied with the kit but for example on the fittings on the transom. Am I correct in thinking that they are most often pins that are secured from the back?.
Can anyone tell me a source for these? (Or whatever is used)
I can see me being here quite alot

Thanks in advance
Les

17-09 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2016, 02:08:38 pm »

Hi Les,
All the fittings on the transom of the Severn are bolted on. The exhaust flanges are bolted from inside the boat with the nuts showing, all the other fittings are bolted with the nuts inboard. I used 14BA brass nuts and bolts on my model, not that easy to do when trying to put the nuts on the bolts blind. I have also used Grant Line model railway dummy heads, they need a bit of work but look very good when applied. The number of the part is Grandt Line 128. Which dummy bolts have Speedline supplied you with? I know he is changing to laser cut ones, mine are the old nickle plated brass ones that are a little bit big but look fantastic when fitted and of course do not need painting.
Always happy to help
17-09

craggle · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2016, 03:39:58 pm »

Hi Les

I have just received my 1:12th Severn kit as well so will be useful to compare notes as we go.

I have two bags of laser cut, plastic bolt heads in my kit. There are quite a few of them!

Craig.

17-09 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 08, 2016, 04:55:28 pm »

Hi Guys.
Back in Oct 14, "Canterbury Coxswain" and I, spent a morning measuring and counting the bolts on the Dover Severn.(That's why Big Ada always has something to say and hence my "rivet counter" name in the MBAD). We did this for our own records and to help Adrian at Speedline who we sent this information to as well. I will not bore you with the comprehensive list of where these bolts were located but there are 1534 17mm AF bolts in stainless steel on the superstructure/upper deck area of the boat. We could have missed to odd one or two.

17mm bolts are also used for the kickboards and many other fittings on this boat. 13mm AF bolts are used for the handrails around the stern and in a few other places, we estimated there are about 100+ of these, needed. The engine access panels on the rear deck use 18.5mm bolts, and there are some 24mm bolts used on the towing bollard forward. As most are 17mm, the scale size should be 1.41mm AF, I use 1.5mm from the supplier mentioned in the previous answer to Les. Adrian used this info to laser cut his offerings which are now supplied in his latest kits, I have not used any of these but did have a sample to measure up.

17-09

lesfac · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2016, 06:34:29 pm »

The bolt heads in the kit are laser cut. I haven't had a good look at them and I wonder if anything locates them over the etched marks or if its done by eye.
Unfortunately the kit arrived with damage to the bow caused by the carrier throwing it about so my first job has been to repair that.
I have obtained the RNLI set of drawings and I am a bit disappointed with the information they show. The 2 General arrangement sheets are 1/20 and the docking plan is 1/25. (That caused a bit of head scratching before i noticed the difference in the scale.) There is no drawing of the transom view at all . Between the RNLI drawings and the supplied plan drawings I wonder if I have enough reference material to be able to deduce all required dimensions.
So far I have fitted the bilge keels and the next job is to rub down the filler to blend them in.
I am really glad this forum is here to seek advice. I just hope I don't wear out my welcome with all the questions I have.
Les

17-09 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2016, 08:47:57 pm »

The RNLI drawings are a little disappointing, the 1/20th need multiplying by 1.66 to get to 1/12th.
The docking plan gives a lot of information in metric, just divide the figure given by 12 and you will have the measurement in 1/12th.
There is a transom drawing, or one half of it which is useful. The 20th scale drawings are for " The Will" 17-02 she is quite different from the Dover Boat.
Where is your nearest Severn Lifeboat in Wales, a trip is well worth it.
Keep you questions coming Les, if I can help, I will.
17-02

mk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2016, 12:48:12 am »

Hi with reference to your bolt issue on my Lifeboat I have used Stainless Steel nuts and bolts these are not cheap but if you want a nice looking job at the end this is I think the best way to go. I get most of my bits from Knupfer model and precision engineering
There service is 1st class. I also put washers under the bolt head I have these photo etched in sheets. I have just bought 1000 x 1.2mm bolts and 100 x 1.2 countersunk and 100 x 1mm countersunk bolts for the 2 Shannon Lifeboat I am building still got to get the bigger ones. If you want it to look right it costs.

John

craggle · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2016, 09:01:11 am »

Thanks for the link John, they do some great stuff on there.
I can see a lot of tiny bolts in my future!

Craig

lesfac · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2016, 09:30:46 am »

Thanks 17-09 and John for the supplier information.
I think I will see what sort of job I make of the boat before I decide what to do about the bolts that can be decorative rather than functional. (This is getting expensive. I knew I should have gone for the 1/12 Mirror dinghy)
My nearest Severn boat is Brixham which I will have a look at at some point. However I am told that there are major works going on there at the moment and it is currently moored out in the marina. I am basing my boat on the Brixham boat.
Les

17-09 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2016, 01:05:47 pm »

Hi Mk1
Yes the company Knupfer is very good, bought a lot of bits from them at the Dortmund show last year.
Can you confirm that the 1.2 bolts you are using have a 2mm measurement across the flats?
If this is so, the 1mm bolts should have a 1.5mm AF measurement.
Could you possibly supply us with your photo etched washers please? and could your supplier reduce the size for 1 mm bolts.
Not sure how you PM me but be very interested.
Regards 17-09

Flundle (Speedline Models) · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2016, 10:39:00 pm »

The laser cut bolt beads are a big compromise on the previous offerings. The cost of the original ones was just crazy and I had to have 50,000 at a time so
Well, I have had 5,000 made in brass but they need plating yet and I think I will have to do that myself somehow. If anyone knows how to chrome plate them I would be delighted to know.

derekwarner · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2016, 11:05:06 pm »

Could I suggest that electroless nickel plating would be a realistic option over plating with chromium....which also requires a few micron of copper plate substrate prior to the chromium

All of the millions of small threaded fasteners available in every size and configuration are electroless nickel plated & yes in both ferrous and non ferrous materials

Derek

lesfac · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2016, 11:08:42 pm »

This will be of limited use but many years ago I worked at Girling and the plating department used to plate small parts in drums which slowly tumbled the components as they received the electrical current that delivered the plating. The lifeboat bolts are much smaller than the components I am talking about but a miniaturized process might exîst.
I have been thinking about ways to make dummy bolts. Another process from my days at Girling was cold heading where wire is bumped into a mould to form the head. All done in one bump. If it could be done with stainless wire no need to plate.
The trouble is we are talking miniature here
As I said of limited use but maybe someone somewhere.......
Les

Netleyned · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2016, 08:12:07 am »

Lesfac,
You can keep in touch of the work in progress on the RNLI pontoon
refurbish in Brixham by this live webcam.
http://www.camsecure.co.uk/Camsecure3/Brixham_Harbour.html.
It looks like the next job is to replace the gangway to the pontoon.
The Severn did come alongside for a practice last week, but as you say,
she is moored in the outer end of the Marina at the mo.

Ned

Flundle (Speedline Models) · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2016, 12:39:26 pm »

Thanks you folks for your help.
The electroless process looks the one to go for. I have spoken to a specialist here in the UK who say that you need a Titanium drum to tumble the parts in.
I'll give NASA a call, see if they have one.
There is a company in the good 'ol US of A who do a kit but he's asleep at the moment but I'll let you know if his kit ($185) plus postage and customs will do the job. If it will I'll get one.
It might also plate resin parts?????? Shiny rams and fitting would be good.

lesfac · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2016, 01:17:49 pm »

The process I recall was bright zinc plating and passivating and the drums were a white plastic material like nylon or polypropylene.
Zinc plating is a standard finish on bolts (I don't know if its the finish on lifeboat bolts) Would there be any benefits or disadvantages in plating with zinc? Its less bright that chrome or nickel
Les.

Flundle (Speedline Models) · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2016, 01:29:28 pm »

Well my problem has gone away, along with 120 of my English pounds.
A company call NITEC in Chesterfield is plating them (electroless wise so thanks again for the info). with Nickel to 13 Microns (to guarantee resistance from salt water corrosion I'm told). Their man told me it only takes an hour or so but they have a minimum charge of £100 plus VAT, £120 to me and you. 2.5p each. They use a nylon drums so I will have to cancel my order with NASA.
They are going tomorrow so will be back in a week I guess then they will be for sale again and an option in the next five few kits.
I'll have to dig out the invoice to advise how much they will be.
Thank you again for your help, most appreciated.

17-09 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2016, 03:16:29 pm »

What are you plating Adrian, are they the laser cut examples that I have discussed with you before?
Regards ......17-09

Flundle (Speedline Models) · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2016, 10:53:50 pm »

No,they are the originals.
I have just had 5000 brass ones plated and they look really nice.

derekwarner · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2016, 01:00:49 am »

My experience with electroless Ni plating was referenced back to the Austrian Voest Alpine Specification as used in world wide plating requirements for ferrous metal hydraulic fittings that will be exposed to water spray in steel Slab Casting plant

I am sure you Plating Shop was correct in the minimum order job lot......you could have had twice the quantity plated for the same cost

So at a 13 micron deposit, you will be well covered in that they will never corrode even if fully immersed in saline water....however, use close fitting tube spanners for the actual tightening of the fasteners as the Ni plating is extremely brittle and pressure will bruise the plating and could cause flaking of the AF head surfaces

Derek

Flundle (Speedline Models) · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2016, 04:09:00 pm »

At long last I have some new (original pattern brass and nickle plated) dummy bolt heads. They are really nice and are plated to 13 microns.
They are 14p each. I know, outrageous but that reflects their cost plus a bit (and I mean a bit) for me.

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Author Topic: Bolt/Rivet heads on 1/12 Severn (Read 10550 times)