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[malcf]

Hi I am thinking about scaling a 1/700 scale model of the USS NEW YORK LPD 21 up to 1/96 scale, as there is a hull available in the USA but with postage it works out very expensive, has anyone any advice on the best way to approach this or am I better bitting the bullet and prizing open my wallet.

[Klunk]

Bigger model here
http://www.jeffhead.com/modelbuilds/lpd21.htm

[malcf]

Hi thanks for the link , I forgot to say I have already purchased a 1/700 scale model of the ship its the 1/96 scale one that is to expensive to import, the 1/700 one was relatively cheap off ebay £17-95p made by Hobby Boss, I was thinking about measuring the model and scaling the sizes up by measuring the profile at say around 12 places down the length of the model so I can plot the hull lines for bulkheads etc or maybe drawing the profiles and enlarging them on a scanner? any suggestions are most welcome.

[ballastanksian]

I am sure I have read in these pages of someone cutting a plastic kit hull into sections and scaling up the pieces to get his dimentions. This would ruin the kit hull but if that is not a problem then worth thinking about.

[Sandy]

I have bought hulls from abroad.

It is expensive.

Both, though, were cut in half(ish) to reduce the length as above a certain length postage shoots up in price.

You will have to pay import duty and VAT and whatever random figure the PO decide to charge you for telling you that you are being charged import duty and VAT.

Here's the box and hull that came for me from Australia. Joined the hull is 84 inches.



Who supplies the New York hull?

[malcf]

It is the scale shipyard in the usa the hull is actually the san Antonio lpd 17 but I reckon they are the same as far as I can tell. scaleshipyard.com

[tigertiger]

Dumb question for those in the know.


If there is so much scanning for 3D printing, would it be possible to 3D scan the smaller 1/700 model and then capture the data in a file suitable to use in CAD drawings, and then scale up to 1/96.




Also http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lpd17/lpd174.html seems to have some form of CAD or Delph Ship drawings. I am not sure if they could sell basic lines to you.

[TailUK]

I successfully upsized a 1/700th hull to 1/144th.  LCS USS Fort Worth.  Admittedly that hull is a hard chine design, so careful measurement of the angles was also vital.  Check for people doing hi-res 3D renders they can also give vital info.

[malcolmfrary]

Dumb question for those in the know.


If there is so much scanning for 3D printing, would it be possible to 3D scan the smaller 1/700 model and then capture the data in a file suitable to use in CAD drawings, and then scale up to 1/96.




Also http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lpd17/lpd174.html seems to have some form of CAD or Delph Ship drawings. I am not sure if they could sell basic lines to you.

As I understand it, a 3D printer needs to be larger than the item being printed, so the parts resulting from a multi part set of scans would need to be broken down into bite size chunks, or a truly enormous printer would be involved.  Getting the bits together in a presentable manner would probably be more work than actually building conventionally.
There is no reason why scaling up from a smaller scale model should not work apart from the consideration that any measuring errors would be multiplied, as would any inaccuracies on the donor model.

[TailUK]

Dumb question for those in the know.


If there is so much scanning for 3D printing, would it be possible to 3D scan the smaller 1/700 model and then capture the data in a file suitable to use in CAD drawings, and then scale up to 1/96.

 




Also http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lpd17/lpd174.html seems to have some form of CAD or Delph Ship drawings. I am not sure if they could sell basic lines to you.

Scanning object into the computer isn't as easy as it looks without very expensive equipment.  An easier option would be to get a 3D cad design and get it CNC routed or milled and make a GRP hull from that pattern.  3D printing something that size would cost an arm, a leg and several internal organs.  Plus the hype surrounding 3D printing makes people think that you plug the design in one end and a finished ready to use model comes out the other.  3d prints can be poorly finished, porous, weaksand a pig too use.

[tigertiger]

I was NOT thinking for one moment about 3D printing.


I was thinking about just scanning and capturing the data in a CAD file. The file dimensions could then be scaled up and used for producing line drawings or CNC of frames. But if that is not possible yet, then so be it.

[craggle]

A 3D scanner would be perfect for the job producing a CAD model that could then be sectioned and the various hull profiles laid out on a drawing ready for printing, laser cutting etc.

Another option would be to cut up and destroy the small model kit. Cut it every 20mm perhaps and draw around each hull profile onto paper. You could then devise a pantograph type device to trace around your drawings and scale them up to whatever you liked. You'd then have a set of frames ready to plank, fill in with foam and make a plug, fibreglass or whatever.

A lot of effort though, the 3D scanning option is probably the easiest but possibly the most expensive if you don't have one and don't have access to the CAD software to process the profile afterwards.

Craig.

[malcf]

I think the 3d scanning is well beyond my capabilities, the slicing of the model would weaken the sides unless I glue the deck in place, I may go for using a small contour jig I have the ones with the sliding wires, I am ok drawing things in 2d cad so I could plot the frame sections and maybe enlarge them using the cad software as well, it is at the moment a project for my upcoming retirement so still a few years away as I need to finish the ones I already have going on, one good thing in its favour is that it has a flat bottom to it so a good place to take most of the measurements from.

[deadbeat]

Although some manufacturers models are pretty accurate and some not so, I would have thought that any inaccuracies in a 1/700 model would be magnified considerably if scaling up to 1/96. I have just used a 1/72 S Boat as a reference model for a 1/24 S boat model, a three up conversion even then there were inaccuracies. 1/700 to 1/96 is a big step up. If plans are avaialble then upscaling from them would be better. I'm not sure if this web site would help www.the-blueprints.com

[malcf]

I have already searched on there ,there are plan and side elevations as pdfs but no vector files for it, I have voted for the files but it needs a lot more votes for them to consider drawing it up.

[Geoff]

Having built a large 78" model of Iron Duke from scratch I was surprised how much the hull actually cost to build and would generally say it is cheaper (and a lot quicker) to secure a fibreglass hull if one is available.


As you are looking at 1/96 its going to be a big and long term project so would counsel you consider the fibreglass hull. How much money are we talking about and how much would the "tax" be on it? A plank on frame scratch built hull will cost in the region of £200 + by the time its ready for painting.


Whilst scaling up from 1/700 is possible it is not something I would recommend any small inaccuracy in the 1/700 model or measurements taken will be magnified quite a few times by the time you get to 1/96. In my opinion not worth it given the huge amount of time and investment you will be making anyway.


Good luck


Geoff

[tsenecal]

not sure what is going on here, a quoted posting looked garbled when it was posted... see next post.

[tsenecal]

It is the scale shipyard in the usa the hull is actually the san Antonio lpd 17 but I reckon they are the same as far as I can tell. scaleshipyard.com

In regards to scaleshipyard.com, call him ahead of time and make sure the hull you are interested in is in stock and sitting on his shelf.  there are many old stories of people waiting months if not years for him to finally make and ship purchased items.

[malcf]

Hi and thanks for the advice I wont be ordering from scale shipyard as the price is $702 plus shipping  around $250 plus which equates to around £650 plus vat and customs duty etc it works out far to expensive to even contemplate so it will have to go on the backburner I am afraid but the annoying thing is its a ship I would love to build but I have others I am interested in and are available over here in the uk for much less initial outlay.

[ballastanksian]

I have seen and heard of people building the hull of the smaller model, slicing it into sections and then using them as templates to scale up and create frames to the scale required. Yes you lose the kit hull, but this should be cheaper than ordering from abroad.

I appreciate what people have said about scale creep due to enlarging an innacurate model, but as the percentage of innacuracy will be the same, it would not look out of place. 2% on a 1:300th scale model will still be 2% on a 1:96th scale model. The innacuracy will not increase disprportionally. Obviously if it is more like 5-10% then that is unacceptable and I would not reccomend it, but the thickness of the planks or a little difference would not look out of place. By all means choose what you want to build, but do not worry about a little innacuracy if it does not stink Malcolm.

Also, unless we all start walking around with tape measures and books of stats, we will not notice any difference

[tsenecal]

I built a 1/36 scale pt-boat from a 1/72 scale model by taking the hull of the 1/72 model (13" long) and marking the hull with a square every 1".  i then took cardboard and carfully cut it to fit the outside of the hull at each of those 1" marks.   i then took all these little cardboard Silhouettes to a copier where i blew them up by 200%.  i then used those enlargements to make bulkheads.  i was able to make a keel and deck formers the same way.   granted, for your setup, the enlargements will need to be 7.29 times the original, so you will probably have to mark the original hull every 1/2", but the concept is the same.