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Author Topic: Smoke  (Read 4280 times)

richardabeattie

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Smoke
« on: March 14, 2018, 08:08:00 pm »

How about using a small bit of one of the smoke pellets sold for flue testing?  Sounds a lot simpler than installing a 12 volt steam generator.
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Terry

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2018, 08:50:44 am »

Sounds interesting. Can you give more info please.


Cheers, Terry.
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Hellboy Paul

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 09:20:48 am »

I can see a couple of problems, 1, a potential fire risk & 2 they only burn for 30-40 seconds..
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Neil

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2018, 10:33:50 am »


I can see a couple of problems, 1, a potential fire risk & 2 they only burn for 30-40 seconds..


my brother in law who  was a firefighter came up with the same  solution of smoke pellets for me in 1985 when I built a large model of a trawler, which I had originally dreampt of putting a Stuart turner triple expansion steam engine in which I owned at the time........but couldn't get the final machining done. I had made a tin plate funnel for the trawler...


we tested a few pellets that he acquired from the station...........and the heat was so much that the paint on the funnel blistered............no good for what you want at all.


neil.
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2018, 10:34:20 am »


.... and they do generate quite a bit of heat!

               but impressive though!


I think Andrews Springer is smoke pellets.... https://youtu.be/SkYPKqnTQMk
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Brian60

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 11:21:15 am »

Investigate those e cigarettes, some of them give off plumes of smoke all you would need is small (50mm) fan to direct it out.

bfgstew

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 11:31:24 am »

The trouble with e cigs or mod boxes as vapers call them is maintaining coil saturation, most have a 10 second cut out as this stops the coil burning out. You also need a fare bit of 'pull' on them to acheive clouds of vapour. Also Gov interference has reduced tank volumes down to 2.5ml.
Not saying it's impossible but may need a deal of work to get results.
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tigertiger

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 11:37:49 am »

The trouble with e cigs or mod boxes as vapers call them is maintaining coil saturation, most have a 10 second cut out ...
 


Puffer? That is a serious suggestion/question BTW
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richardabeattie

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 12:08:43 pm »

I have also ruled out a Benghazi Burner.  (a funnel full of sand and petrol)  Good for brewing up in the desert but too exciting for models.  But there must be some slow burning stuff that could make smoke.
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Davenotdone

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 12:27:57 pm »

No idea if it works but how about incense burners, you know, they look like firework safety lighters but they give off a slow wisp of smoke and allso it makes your model boat smell lovely :-)  Regards, Dave.
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richardabeattie

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 12:40:22 pm »

Let's pray it works.
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McGherkin

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2018, 01:06:42 pm »

I have a Markís Model Bits Foggy. Itís very good, being the mister type it spouts water rather than hot oil, which is better for the model and environment, and easier to obtain too.


You could theoretically make your own, the misters are available on eBay.


https://youtu.be/xFbVaR4TGE8
https://youtu.be/1fvw1nsKY3A
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Neil

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2018, 03:03:38 pm »


No idea if it works but how about incense burners, you know, they look like firework safety lighters but they give off a slow wisp of smoke and allso it makes your model boat smell lovely :-)  Regards, Dave.


go the whole hog dave, and put a joint down the funnel...........then we'd all be happy at the lakeside %% %% %% {-) {-)
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ballastanksian

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2018, 09:35:41 pm »


That's groovy flower children!!!!!


Seriously though, from what I have read, most ideas apart from designed or purchased smoke generators are:


*Toxic (chemical smoke for black/brown) and illegal.
*Covering your and others models with soot and greasy deposits (bad for fluff attraction as well as discolouration .)
*Can damage you model through heat.



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Arrow5

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2018, 09:13:49 am »

Sounds interesting. Can you give more info please.


Cheers, Terry.
  Hello Terry,   smoke pellets are also used by model flyers but aren't so good when the aircraft are doing 100km per hour !   In the UK they are (or were ) available in various colours from Robotbirds. The so called "black" is more of a purple.  The standard light grey colour shown in the video of my puffer is a drainpipe testing pellet from plumber`s supply shop.  The puffer`s funnel has a smaller diameter metal tube inside with an air gap to protect the plastic funnel from the heat.  An expanding snake-like worm of ash is produced sometime projecting out of the funnel like a horror-film monster when it is burning !  Later experiments with half a pellet made less smoke. I think metal  box reservoir  with a thinner pipe might make a less "smoke-screen" effect.  Youtube has some recipes on how to make a "smoke bomb", basically saltpetre and sugar.  Expect a visit from security when purchasing some ingredients if you make your own !  Black smoke is the holy grail for steamboats and WW1 and 11 battleships but nobody seems to have cracked that one. 
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irishcarguy

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2018, 11:07:25 pm »

We use coils that burn slow & put out a fair amount of smoke to keep mosquitoes away when we cook outside in the Summer but now they have gas ones that I think do a better job.  I do know the coils worked well , were cheap & did make a lot of smoke, just ask the mosquitoes. Mick B. (Amazon sell them)
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richardabeattie

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2018, 08:33:33 am »

What about the Graupner 6v smoke generator?  Any good/
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Z750Jay

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2018, 09:03:12 am »

Getting your smoker liquid to produce black smoke is doable.
When they make the liquids for e-cigs a colourant is added to improve the plume. A black colourant is available (only comercially) but it is not that common.
Rough technique is to add the colourant to your liquid with the liquid at about 32íc. Then you agitate for about 5 or so hours - they use those test tube shaker things when they are getting the ratios right.


Having a wife who works in an tabacco companies R and D department does have its uses
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Geoff

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2018, 01:48:56 pm »

In general I believe there are only two types that work:


1) The water based ones which are relatively new on the market - they just use water and sonic vibrator disc which atomises the water into vapour which is then blown out the funnel using a small PC fan. Upside is that they use water and are cold so no heat whatsoever and that current consumption id quite low, in the region of 1amp. They are also quite easy to make using nebulisers from e-bay. Downside is that they can be quite large and need a decent amount of headroom for the mist to form and they also typically work on 24 volts. In itself that is not a problem as you can cheaply procure a rectifier which jumps the voltage to 24 volts but this then doubles the current consumption to 2amps.


2) Oil based which typically muse some hot coil of wire wrapped round a wick to generate the heat and vaporise the smoke oil - now there is a lot of old misconception with these as the modern ones don't use oil at all but fog fluid of some description. This is non toxic and non hazardous and allegedly non flammable (mixture of de-mineralised water, glycerine and a specific type of glycol).  Now with these the current consumption can typically be higher in the region of 3amps to 5amps. The downside is the current consumption and candidly following a number of experiments I have found the non-blameable fog fluid is flammable under certain conditions (An entirely different subject).


Some people use various oil mixtures (baby oil being one) but in my experience the unburnt oil coats the hot element which eventually caused overheating and burns the coil out.


Overall with the nebuliser based units I find the smoke doesn't stay very long and is rapidly dispersed. With the fog fluid ones the smoke hangs around much more - neither system in my experience leave any residue on the model.


Both units actually produce fog as opposed to smoke so its not possible to introduce a black dye to make black smoke because you are trying to make black fog which just doesn't exist!


Both systems actually work in the same way by atomising a liquid, one by ultrasonic vibration and the other by heat - the fluid is transformed into tiny droplets which refract the light and we get a "white" fog effect.


All food for thoughts


Cheers


Geoff







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Fred Ellis

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2018, 10:00:23 pm »

Hi
I have a 6v oil smoke unit in my 1/35 tug, it is O.K for a short run of say about 5 minutes, after that I have to come in so that I can let it cool down then I can refill the unit, some of our members use the 12v water based type and they can stay out longer also they do not need any cooling down time, I do not know if the water type can be fixed in line with the ESC,(some one can say).


I am hopping that I will be able to have the water based one in my Lady "CAROL" (Lady "T") (need to keep SWMPO) happy. :-))
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Re: Smoke
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2018, 11:33:03 pm »

I have a graupner / seuthe 6v smoke unit in a very small model of mine (<400mm).  Been a while since I ran it but never had any significant heat off the outer tube transferred to the funnel.  There was two types of fluid -constant smoke or "puffs".  Both of my oils seem to work well though there is the occasional drip down the side somewhere, easily cleaned.  Considering the size of one of my models the current draw is in the mA range -it suits well for what it does and always attracted positive comments.

...As a side note "smoke" or "diesel "clag" seems to be the in-thing at model rail shows these days and it's not really very convincing.  Worse still those sitting inside puffing on vaping pipes etc from the display, the clouds of guff are horrid and makes me move on from the exhibit.  I go outside to smoke away from anybody who doesn't, why should vapers be any different!!!
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Brian60

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Re: Smoke
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2018, 05:56:02 pm »

I put this link in the other forum last week.....

https://www.banggood.com/Heng-Long-Smoke-Machine-3888-056-German-King-Tiger-Battle-Tank-Part-p-1097490.html?rmmds=search-left-hotproducts__1&cur_warehouse=CN

A smoke unit for 4 quid. The responder to the post said they were not very good. But that kinda doesn't cover it really. While the unit might not be very good, for 4 quid, you haven't lost out too much cash if you buy one and tinker about with it to get it to 'be good' if you see what I mean!
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