Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Only Electric & Hyrdogen New Cars by 2035 (2032?). Is It Practically Possible?  (Read 702 times)

Tug Fanatic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Location: England

I live in a country area and we have no gas which means that we all have oil fired central heating + lots of wood burning stoves. We also have no buses so are reliant on our cars and the nearest railway line isn't electric. If we are to go emissions free we all need new heating systems and lots of charging points - probably up to 3 per house.

We also have farmers who burn a lot of oil directly and are real polluters with the nitrate fertilizers that they put on the land to grow our food.

Whereas technology, like full fibre broadband and 5G, tends to roll out in cities and trickles down to country areas in this case we will all need it at the same time. This is an enormous task & the cost will surely be vast if it can be done at all.

I have gathered from your replies that you are all as sceptical as I am but unfortunately that doesn't remove the need to do something. I agree with those who have said that our kids/ grandkids have a problem.

Badly thought out headline grabbing sound bites are not an answer but I haven't seen any indication of a realistically costed achievable strategy to get to the desired endpoint from anybody.

We also need a new battery technology because, as I understand it, there simply isn't enough of the mined materials necessary to produce all the required batteries on the planet.
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,419
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK

Politicians and activists seem to think that magic revolutionary solutions are available to solve problems but life isn't usually like that. Very often the supposed 'solution' simply shifts the problem somewhere else or the law of unforeseen consequences swings into action.

Most real improvements come about in an evolutionary manner. We are seeing this at the moment with the shift from cash to electronic payments and  internet buying replacing high street retail.

In Edwardian times serious concern was expressed that London would soon be knee deep in horse manure if traffic levels continued to increase. Of course the motor vehicle then came along. But it didn't happen overnight. As late as the 1950s our coal and other items were delivered by horse and cart and the local bakery mintained a stable and that was in the outer London suburbs.

Colin
Logged

Tug Fanatic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Location: England

I agree but there isn't time for that here unless you delay it for say 20 years with possibly very unfortunate consequences.
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,419
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK

Well, if you go ahead with all this regardless of the consequences then the economy will go bust and society will break down. So we are stuffed either way.

But it won't make any diffenence as the UK plays only a very small part in global warming and the rest of the world won't follow suit so it will be woe and global destruction but I will be dead by then....

Not much point in this debate really if there is no viable solution short of decimating the global population which may happen through epidemics and natural disasters anyway.

Have a nice day!

Colin
Logged

Baldrick

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 738
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Nether Effingham (Perfideous Albion)

I wonder why this  https://www.toyota.co.uk/world-of-toyota/environment/fuel-cell-vehicle        has never got any momentum ? To my knowledge they have been developing the technology for 60 years, in 1957 we were involved in the construction of the laboratories to develop fuel cells and bring them to the market. Still does not figure as the motive power of the future despite having zero emissions except H2O.and having been demonstrated as an ideal means of motive power.
Logged
The early bird catches the worm.
But it is the second mouse that gets the cheese.

grendel

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,720
  • Location: Canterbury, Kent, UK

probably the supply of hydrogen fuel.
Logged

CGAux26

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 588
  • Location: Deep in the heart of TEXAS (Tomball)

My gawd! 700 bar = 10,200 PSIG!  And where does the H2 come from?  Same issues as using H2 in and internal combustion engine. 


Calling Elon Musk to expedite my passage to Mars.
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,606
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK

I wonder why this  https://www.toyota.co.uk/world-of-toyota/environment/fuel-cell-vehicle        has never got any momentum ? To my knowledge they have been developing the technology for 60 years, in 1957 we were involved in the construction of the laboratories to develop fuel cells and bring them to the market. Still does not figure as the motive power of the future despite having zero emissions except H2O.and having been demonstrated as an ideal means of motive power.
While a fully loaded car itself can work very well, there are the minor points of producing the hydrogen in the first place (separating hydrogen from whatever it has attached itself to takes at least the same amount of energy that you get back when you recombine it with oxygen), transporting it to filling stations and storing it (hydrogen, being the smallest possible molecule, is the best at escaping), refilling the car with the pressures involved (anybody remember the tense enjoyment of refilling a gas lighter?). 
I do see a future with a lot less travelling, certainly in personally owned transport.  I can't see providers of hired vehicles, whether for individuals or public mass transport, taking well to the idea of carrying large loads, so that would put the kybosh on a lot of us transporting boats to a lake.
Logged
"With the right tool, you can break anything" - Garfield

plastic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,008
  • Bobbing Along!
  • Location: Watford

I worked with Hydrogen for years - it's a nightmare to contain - it is such a tiny molecule that it escapes through materials.     
Also, if you look at the condition of your average petrol pump, can you imagine the huge leaks from the system after a whole bunch of amateurs have mishandled the equipment?Also, you can see a petrol leak - you can't see Hydrogen leaks.

If you actually look at the end-game for all these policies, it's basically taking the UK back to 1920.      The 'little people' will not be able to heat their homes or travel anywhere.
Logged

kinmel

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 696
  • Colwyn Bay M.B.C.
  • Location: Conwy, in sunny north Wales

Commenting on a report by M.P.s the National Grid said that just 54 charging stations, placed at appropriate points along the strategic road network, would mean 99 per cent of drivers in England and Wales would be within 50 miles of a charge point. It estimated that this could be delivered at a cost of 800m but said "investment will be needed by industry and enabled by government".
Within 50 miles...   There are no strategic roads in north Wales so 50 miles it is.  The e-golf has a real world range of 120miles.  Drive 50 miles top up, drive home and there is 70 miles left, 20 really because I will need 50 to get back to the strategic charging point.
54 stations for 800million, just short of 15million each and that is before the 150% cost over run
I can see the clouds, but where are the cuckoos?
Logged

Tug Fanatic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Location: England

Those would just be enormous car parks with people sitting for hours waiting for their cars to charge - if they could find a space.

Now that is what I call a commercial opportunity!

Strategic network charging points do nothing to deal with the basic problem which has to be "at home" and "at place of work" charging.
Logged

john_k

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Location: Boksburg - South Africa

Good day all,

Another aspect of the plan which seems to have escaped most people's attention: using the petrol and diesel fuel consumption figures from above, and assuming that the government probably gets two thirds of the selling price, how will they replace the 30 odd billion pounds of lost revenue?
Logged

plastic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,008
  • Bobbing Along!
  • Location: Watford

I did a project at work to install a couple of electric charging points - the reason was a chicken and egg problem - no-one would buy an electric car if they couldn't charge it at work and work wouldn't fit charge points as there were no electric cars on site.       I was aware of some staff members saying they would definitely buy an electric car if there were charge points.     

As a 'green initiative' I did a presentation to management and got the funding for the charge points as an experiment to measure exactly how much energy would actually be taken to top-up people's electric cars. 

I also organised an electric car motorshow on site to launch the new facility.      We had BMW, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Vauxhall, Renault etc. bring their electric vehicles along to demonstrate.
Soon after, we had the problem of too many people buying electric cars and them having to share the charge points.   %)
Logged

plastic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,008
  • Bobbing Along!
  • Location: Watford

Good day all,

Another aspect of the plan which seems to have escaped most people's attention: using the petrol and diesel fuel consumption figures from above, and assuming that the government probably gets two thirds of the selling price, how will they replace the 30 odd billion pounds of lost revenue?
Almost all new cars are connected to the internet - not so you can surf while you drive - it's so they can announce their location ready for Pay Per Mile driving.
Logged

Mark T

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,081
  • Location: Dudley in the Black Country

Almost all new cars are connected to the internet - not so you can surf while you drive - it's so they can announce their location ready for Pay Per Mile driving.


This is so true - Recently I've been delivering new Tesla's just imported from the states.  Two things happened which surprised me.  The first was I received a call asking me why I was taking a car to Leeds that should have been delivered to London?  It turned out that I had been given a wrong car at the docks but Tesla track all of their cars worldwide and know the location of all of their cars at any given time.


Secondly on another occasion one of the cars I was collecting had locked itself shut with the keycard inside.  I quick call to Tesla somewhere in Holland and an hour later they remotely unlocked it for me from Holland.  Real big brother stuff!
Logged
Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

plastic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,008
  • Bobbing Along!
  • Location: Watford

Yes - and as it's all 'real-time' it means variable tariffs depending on where you drive and at what time.       A trip to London at 8am?      "Sorry, Dave.    I can't let you do that.   You are not rich enough."   
Logged

plastic

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,008
  • Bobbing Along!
  • Location: Watford

California has already started to ration infrastructure - you can only have a maximum of 50 gallons of water per day (reducing year on year), per person and they are switching electricity off for days at a time in some areas.

And with Smart Meters on your gas and electricity rationing / controlling your energy 'allowance', you might have to choose between driving to work or heating your house.

Have a look at UN Agenda 30 and read between the soft, fluffy lines of 'NewSpeak' and guess how their vision is to be implemented.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up