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[zooma]

Thanks Bob,


Yep I’m going to go for M5 maxishaft with a Powerflex coupling and buy the alignment version as well to make sure it’s all in line. Think I’m going to add a P bracket as well as my old home made skeg hasn’t survived. I see your Javelin is sporting one.


Another stupid question but is P38 the favoured filler for wood model boats? I see many references on here. I’ve bought some mantua filler (hasn’t arrived yet) and also have some white putty epoxy which I understand is a combined bonding and filling agent?


Please forgive my lack of knowledge but I’d rather know before I start whether my choice of filler is up to it or not.

Hi Stuw

I don't have a "P" bracket on my Rapier - only the long wooden tube support (skeg).  I quite like the streamlined look of them and they are easy to cut-out and replace if they need changing.  Mine are made from 4mm ply and fixed with slow setting Araldite (not the fast setting stuff) between the tube and the keel.

My Javelin has still not been "attacked" by me yet - but I will probably remove the "P" bracket and just use a full length wooden tube support like I have on the Rapier as I think they look neater .... and all of the above.

I use P38 to fill anything that needs it on my boats - and also to use as a fillet around the prop shaft support (skeg) to the hull and the shaft tube to the skeg.  This looks nice when it is sanded and "smoothed-in" to give a nice finished streamlined look - even though nobody will ever get to see it, I think it may even add a little strength to the shaft/support/hull joints too.

The white epoxy putty you refer to (Milliput?) is extremely strong and is a good alternative to use as a "fillet" around your prop shaft and skeg as it can be easily shaped with a wet finger before it sets to save a lot of sanding to shape, and for the same reason it is also good to use where the prop shaft comes through on the inside of the hull too.

I have not seen or used the Mantua filler,  but if it is a wood filler,  you may find that the P38 body filler paste could have a better long term durability, but hopefully someone on Mayhem who's has actually used it will be able to advise you about this from their own experience.

Bob.

[ChrisF]

Hi Stu

I've seen those brackets but they are steel rather than alloy. Thing I like about the alloy ones is the quality look once blinged up (!) and the slots which allow some air through.

I use P38 primarily on the hull due to its strength and some flexibility (it has to stand up to car repairs!) but elsewhere use wood filler, particularly where it's going to be painted, e.g. the superstructure.

Chris

[Stuw]

Thanks Bob and Chris for more sage advice.


Wooden skeg blended in would be simpler.



Time for some P38 then. It does not seem to mention wood as a suitable substrate where I’ve seen it advertised but it must work well given your usage and it’s widespread mention on these pages.


I’ve also found a guide to painting and filling on here from “Stavros” which has given me a clue on how to do it all.

[zooma]

A few days ago, Harry contacted me to let me know that there was a boat that could be a Rapier for sale on eBay and gave me the link.

The model was described as "Large Model Boat/Cruiser Hand Made" and the description included the length at 100cm long, so I thought if it looks like a Rapier and is the same length as a Rapier - it probably is a Rapier (and not the smaller Stiletto that looks the same).

Given how few Rapiers are around, I guess that if it had been described as a Rapier it would have had at least some interest, but nobody had placed a bid on it. The starting price was £50 so I placed a bid to hopefully raise its profile and for somebody else to see and recognise it.

The auction ended with no bids (apart from my starting bid) so I have another Rapier joining my fleet in a few days time.

Buying an old wooden model boat is always a bit risky as there is no real way of telling how well it was built or if a decent (long lasting) adhesive was used to glue the bits together, but the pictures suggest that although it needs some work, it could be in much better condition that the one whose restoration has been the subject of this thread.

Again (like most Rapiers and Javelin/Streakers) no strakes were ever fitted to this model, so I fed some 6.5mm square obechie strip through a small bandsaw and cut enough strakes to fit to my Rapier, this Rapier and my Javelin.

Now I have the wood cut, I can start to fit some strakes to these LesRo hulls the next time I fancy a change from planking the Swordsman - starting with my restored Rapier as I would like to know if they actually make any difference to the performance  - or just look good!

[zooma]

I have dug-out an original plan and an original set of building instructions that were included in the LesRo Rapier kits.

There is no mention in the building instructions regarding adding strakes on the bottom of the hull - and none are shown on the plans either!

There are 22 building notes in the building instructions and number 17 has the only reference to strakes and says:-

"The decks can now be fitted, starting with the foredeck, then glue the forward and rear side decks and finally the rear deck. When glue has set trim off all the surplus edges and fit the gunwhale and chine rubbing strakes"

After this there are no more references to the hull construction so it has to be regarded as complete.

There are no reference's anywhere to fitting any strakes to the hull bottom - and helps to explain why none of the Rapiers that I have ever seen have been fitted with them.

I am looking for a copy of the Javelin or Streaker plans and building instructions to see if any strakes on the bottom of the hull  are mentioned.

I am guessing that they are, because Stuw built his Javelin and he has fitted them to his hull bottom.

[Stuw]

They must have been on the plans as you say because I added some. This was (and is) my first boat so I wouldn’t have gone “off-piste” 

[zooma]

I checked the instructions and the plans that I had in the Streaker kit (the most recent info that I have for this LesRo hull type) to see where the hull bottom strakes were positioned - but again there was no mention of them, so I decided to position them 3 on each side and started to scrape away the paint back to bare wood along the line of the first stake I was going to fit.


This is going to be a long job!  I tried various ways of doing this from course grade abrasives to rough square shaped files, but the best way of making any visible progress was to use a narrow chisel to gradually scrape through the paint.


One good thing is that the strength of the paint bond to the underside of the hull was extremely good and gives me some confidence in the wood primer and undercoat that I brush painted on.


Although I have worked out the position of the three rows of strakes, I think I will fix the first row on each side before gouging out the second row position, and likewise for the final row of strakes so I can use a small piece of ply as a spacing gauge between them.


.......meanwhile its back to scraping away the paint.

[Stuw]

I have yet to tackle paint removal. As I’m not sure what I used all those years ago I thought it best to perhaps remove all back to bare wood.


Perhaps I will test if my planned primer (Halfords) will adhere to what I have and that will save my arms somewhat, having suitably prepared and filled of course!


In case it’s of use, my strakes are as follows assuming they are in the planned position:


Measured from centreline of underside of hull with ruler flat on skin of stern:


Strake 1 - 30mm
Strake 2 - 70
Strake 3 - 110


They remain at this spacing until the following distance measured from the stern parallel with keel ruler always flat on the hull as it tapers:


3 - 690mm
2 - 735
1 - 805

It looks as though they taper before this in the photo but it’s due to the hull curves I suppose.

Roughly! They then taper in slightly from these points to reach the following spacing at the bow:


Measured along the rubbing strake from the foremost point:


3 - 35mm
2 - 105
1 - 175

Apologies for a mix of cm and mm on the photo!

Here are some pics with my attempt at writing with my finger on screen! I also managed to find another pic of a restoration showing the strakes as a much subtler affair certainly towards the bow. Look less agricultural than my efforts?

[Stuw]

Hi Stu


The flared part is actually the housing for the ball-race, so is removeable and the prop tube can be pushed into place no problem. Once everything is in place the housing can be epoxied to the tube. Intention was to first try it with the housing just taped in place but some of the epoxy from gluing the tube in place must have wicked up inside the housing and it's now glued! Evidently if you do want to remove it in the future you apply some heat.


One photo shows the housing removed when I was cutting the tube down to size and the other shows the motor and prop shaft etc. in place.


Chris

Quick question for Chris as his mount seems bolted down. Do you use self tapping screws or set some threaded shafts into the wooden base or use captive nuts?


My motor mount is annoying me as it doesn’t have much depth with my motor and it’s water jacket on to give clearance above a wooden plate. Also the screw slots are slots which is great for allowing for adjustment but I’d rather have it all sorted and not allow unwanted movement! So I might combine a mount such as your metal style (probably steel) with a rear mount from my existing unit. But I would like to be able to remove the steel plate perhaps?

[ChrisF]

Hi Stu


I used stainless bolts upside down with a dab of epoxy to the heads to stop them turning/dropping out.


Chris

[zooma]

I spent all day (more or less) in my shed(workshop) and fitted the six strakes to the bottom of the Rapier - and when I came in tonight (10.40pm) I saw the message from Stuw with the measurements that he had taken from his Javelin for me!  Sorry Stuw - but thanks anyway!

Without seeing this, I had started to think that I would fit 3 strakes on each side and space them parallel to the keel and with each other, so this was a slight change to my initial thoughts  and I used the same plywood spacer that I had used on my Swordman hulls to keep the strakes as straight and evenly spaced as possible.

Before I could do this I had to remove all of the various paint layers to reach bare wood in each of these six areas, and that was the biggest time consumer.  I could have just power sanded all of the hull down, but that would have made a lot of dust for me to breath in my small space, so I used a narrow chisel to scrape away the areas the were to receive the strakes.

Naturally I did not want to make a perfect job of this as I thought a random and varying width would be easier to bend back in again when the time comes to replace the paint 

The end result looks good and when the hull bottom is prepared and re-painted I think the strakes will look good and I am pleased that I have done it.  I will do the Javelin the same way..........once my hands have come back life!

[tonyH]

Pics

[zooma]

The strake pictures also show the non-standard forward position of the prop and rudder.

This was a popular mod back in the 1960's and the first Huntsman 31 kits to be developed by Modav had a very similar layout to improve the performance of the model.  As a matter of interest, Modav also found during the early testing of the Huntsman that reducing the number of strakes from 5 to 3 per side also worked much better on the model too. 

Vic Smeed has a very similar forward position for the prop and rudder his Remora design, and although this model was designed primarily as a "steering model" it has proven over the years to be an excellent powerboat - even when vastly over-powered!

Before I came in from the workshop(shed) last night, I painted some thinned yacht varnish onto the obechie strakes and left it to soak-in overnight, and when it has died I can rub-down the paintwork in-between the strakes and brush some undercoat on the underside to highlight any areas that may need a little more smoothing.

Also, the two 36" long central strakes were not long enough to cover the Rapier hull, so I had to add some short lengths onto the ends of them to reach the stern. These two joints will need checking to see if they need any filler to help blend them in before undercoating.

I removed the trim tabs from the stern when I was fitting the strakes and that has left a bit of a mess as they had bonded" themselves firmly onto the paint, so I will also rubdown and undercoat the stern as it will need repainting as well..........so it could be a time to choose that long overdue change of colour too?

[Stuw]

Those strakes look great! Mine seem a bit spongy so I’m guessing they might be balsa? Lost their edge definition in places.

[zooma]

Those strakes look great! Mine seem a bit spongy so I’m guessing they might be balsa? Lost their edge definition in places.

Hi Stuw,

I used some 6.5mm square strip obechie to make the strakes from.  It is not the hardest of woods, but at least it is possible to bend it enough to get it to sit in the right place - if you take your time - and hard enough to resist most of the day to day knocks that the boat will probably suffer during its planned regular use.

For the first time I used a very thin super-glue for this job and started at the bows after cutting the end of the strake to sit against the chine rails. 

Using a small dab to hold it firmly in position (with the other 35" of strake pointing skywards!), I gently coaxed the next inch or so of the strake in place and dabbed some more cyno onto it and held it firm until it set and then progressed my way back repeating this towards the stern.

Once the curvature of the bows is fixed in place, positioning the rest of the strake becomes quite easy as it is more or less a straight line and needs little if any convincing to sit down on the pencil lines that I had drawn on the bottom skin to indicate where I wanted it.

This method proved to be much faster and easier that my previous method of using PVA and lots of small brass nails to temporarily hold the strakes until the glue dried, and it was much easier to shape the bows curvature by securing a small length of strake at a time.

When I had finished fitting the strakes, each one was given another fillet of thin super-glue all along its length (on both sides) to allow it to wick into any small gaps or "dry" areas that the first application may have been too small to see and so may have been missed.

The small off-cuts of strake that I trimmed off of the outer two rows will be kept for use with any future repairs that may be needed, and two short lengths have already been used to extend the inner two rows as the 36" long lengths were not quite long enough to cover the length of the hull.

These middle two strakes almost reached the transom, but I cut them back a little bit further as I didn't think that a very short length of strake was likely to have a strong enough joint and by making the extra additions a little bit longer they should have a better chance of surviving.

If your strakes are balsa and you want to replace them with a harder wood, I would be happy to make you some from harder obechie.  I just need some 6.5mm square strips.  My failure rate when cutting them is quite low - but 5 strips should ensure you end up with the 6 strakes that you need and maybe some spare (if it goes well!).

Sanding or cutting off your balsa strakes should be easy, but you could also try hardening them and filling any dents with P38 to save having to replace them.

Stay safe!

Bob.

[Stuw]

Thanks for the detailed description of how-to and your very kind offer. I shall perhaps try to keep mine in place and fill them as needed but may take you up on the offer if it still stands if this approach should fail.


PM sent

[Stuw]

Not sure if you’ve seen this but a good picture and article on Lesro Rapier here:


https://iansmodelboats.weebly.com/rapier.html

[zooma]

Not sure if you’ve seen this but a good picture and article on Lesro Rapier here:


https://iansmodelboats.weebly.com/rapier.html

Hi Stu,

I found this link when I first decided to restore the old Rapier that started this thread.

At that time I could not find any plans or too much information from any other source about the Rapier, so I used this article and Ians YouTube video of the same boat to help me work out some of the shapes.

It is Ians boat that inspired me to make my main cabin front look the way it is - I thought that was the way that they should be made as I never saw any other pictures. I am pleased his shape inspired me to create my own revised cabin front as now that I have seen the "official" kit shape I have to say that it is the worst part of the boat.

I did contact Ian at the time and he was interested enough in my restoration to include it on his site, but for some reason he has now chosen to remove it completely - but it did show almost all of my pictures and descriptions of the restoration for quite some time.

Ian's version of the boat also has a closed rear cabin and I also made my own version of that too (I made a pattern and cut out the shape in 4mm ply with the windows), but the LesRo design shows an open rear cabin and that is the way that I have modelled mine. I may use this rear cabin part that I made when I restore the Rapier that I picked up on eBay last week as the cabin shape will definitely get changed (improved). It will still look like a Rapier but the cabin will look a bit less like an after-thought and more like the more "finished" cabin that it could have been.

At the time Ian bought his Rapier, it was the last known kit in the UK.

I bought an older, but new and un-started Rapier kit from eBay early last year and this has been really helpful to me as I have been able to check the shapes of the kit parts to see how close I got to them (previously I only had Ians pictures to refer to).

One day (maybe) I will build a new Rapier with all of the parts cut by myself from new wood.  It could be the last 'new" Rapier to be made.....unless somebody else likes them enough re-create this classic model boat in the future.

Bob.

[zooma]

The painted areas on each side of the new strakes were sanded back to give a "feathered" edge to help the new paint blend-in and a coat of pink undercoat has been brush painted on.

Another coat of pink undercoat will be applied today when the first coat has dried and hopefully I will have enough coverage to lightly sand the surfaces smooth enough to be ready to take a coat of red gloss paint.

Over the last few years (since we have no lead in our paints anymore?) I have noticed that the spirit based gloss paints just don't cover very well any more, and red gloss in particular has very little covering power - hence he reason for the pink undercoat.

A "rattle can"would give better coverage, but the underside of this classic boat is being brush painted. I have a tin of red gloss paint and spray painting in my small workshop(shed) makes a mess and lots of fumes and keeping the door and windows open in this cold weather is not a practical option.

I also had a search amongst my oddments and off-cuts and found enough parts that could be cut to make another copy of my (basic) Rapier boat stand, so I cut these odd shaped parts to size on the bandsaw and put it together ready for when my eBay purchased "Rapier" arrives later this week.

I still had the paintbrush out - so this new stand also received its first coat of pink undercoat - so it is looking like this could be a red coloured stand!

[canabus]

Hi Zooma


I found the red rattle cans cover OK, but yellow requires 5/6 coats !!!


Harry

[zooma]

Hi Zooma


I found the red rattle cans cover OK, but yellow requires 5/6 coats !!!


Harry

Hi Harry,

Spray cans do cover well, but it is freezing cold here and spraying in my small shed(workshop) is not a good idea at the moment as opening the door and windows is not really an option.

It makes a nice change to go "old school" and wave a paint brush around again - but I have to admit that a rattle can is much easier...and faster !

Stay safe,

Bob.

[canabus]

Hi Zooma


It's a bit cold today with 22C and ramping up to 31C on Friday !!!


Only 26C for sailing on Saturday.


Canabus

[zooma]

Hi Zooma


It's a bit cold today with 22C and ramping up to 31C on Friday !!!


Only 26C for sailing on Saturday.


Canabus

I feel so sorry for you - I bet you would love to have some nice soothing snow and ice 

[canabus]

Only the ICE for a nice cold drink !!!!


Change my mind, go to the pub from a cold beer !!!!


Canabus

[tonyH]

Pretty in Pink!