Topic: Steam Launch Restoration - Modeen Hull? (Read 12529 times)

DBS88 · « **on:** November 09, 2020, 01:08:50 pm »

I am on a journey to build my own model steam boat and being a recent newcomer to steam and model boats am trying to learn as much as I can so that the new build will be the best I am capable of. On this journey I am learning from several diversions, this, the renovation and restoration of a Windermere Steam Launch is one of those diversions that I hope to share with you. Having learned a lot from this forum, and been inspired by some of the great builds, its time for me to contribute and to pay something back into the knowledge pool. I will, no doubt make so mistakes, and not do things quite right, but this is how we learn, we have to start from somewhere.
The Winderemere Launch I have is called Lady Sarah - an unintended purchase. I went to see a lovely fellow to buy another model boat, it transpired that the gentleman had retired from sailing his steam boats, he was very honest and told me they had not been used for a few years and that they would need some tinkering and adjustment to get them going and so i became the proud owner of not one but three steam boats.
The back story to the Lady Ann is that she had been started by another person who unfortunately could not finish the project, so the fellow I bought it from took it on and finished it. As a result, not much information was able to be passed on as to the make of the hull, the boiler or the engine. So with the help of fellow Mayhemers I hope to add more info and complete the story as well as a restoration that will see Lady Sarah back on the water. Here are couple of photos od Lady sarah as I received her.
The first place I started was to research the boiler with a view to identifying it and getting it pressure tested and steam tested - see photos of boiler

DBS88 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2020, 04:03:40 pm »

For the boiler, first I removed it from the hull, it had been built in in such a way that it could not be removed easily, so a valuable lesson for the new build, to make sure its easy to remove for maintenance. With the boiler and engine on the bench I started by using some descaling fluid, the type used for cleaning kettles. I then sent photos to a couple of people to see if they could identify the boiler, its 5 inches dia and 5 1/2 inches long, with the chimney in the centre, so a return flue boiler. With the chimney removed, pipes can be seen in the flue for steam drying. One of the people I sent photos to was Jerry from Clevedon Steam, who promptly came back with the suggestion that it may be a Martin Howes Baylis SeeKadett boiler so I contacted Martin Baylis who again was very helpful, he said it was an early Der SeeKadett boiler made exclusively for the SeeKadett ( a stunningly beautiful launch) and it was unusual to see it separated from the kit - so a mystery as to where the rest of the kit is. He also confirmed the boiler would have been tested to 150 psi with a max operating pressure of 60psi and normal running pressure of 45psi and that it was made from a Nickel Silver wrapper, instead of copper to keep the weight down. That was a fantastic help, since it would make the safety testing of the boiler much more straight forward.
I began to prep the boiler for a safety test, so filled it with water to the brim, then used the boiler feed pump to gently put some pressure in, at 20 psi I had a look round for leaks and tightened a couple of fittings that were leaking. One leak was coming from the steam valve(180 globe valve), So stopped to sort out the leak. Emptied the boiler into a measuring jug to find its capacity, a massive 1.2 litres.

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2020, 07:47:41 pm »

Nice boats there Dave, good luck with you latest challenge

DBS88 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2020, 07:48:24 pm »

The 180 globe valve (red valve top left hand side) was dripping under pressure, so undid the connection to the lubricator and removed the steam whistle to create space so that the globe valve could rotate and undo. I cleaned the fittings, refitted them using some thread lock to ensure a good seal and refilled the system. I then applied some pressure only to be disappointed that the leak reappeared. I then repeated the process again being especially careful to make sure everything was clean and fitting well, applied the pressure and was again disappointed to find it leaking again. Closer inspection revealed that the leak was not from any of the connections, they were fine, the leak was from the globe valve body itself.
I took it all apart again, quite quickly now with all the practice I had had!!! the leak was coming from the valve where the thread entered the body, as you will see from the photos, the soldered joint between the headed insert and the valve body had failed, it literally came away in my hand.
Anyway that set me off on a search for a replacement 180 globe valve. The threads were confirmed as 1/4 40 and the length of the valve body excluding fittings as 1 inch. Several suppliers offer these valves, I liked the look of the one from EKP so placed an order, it arrived within 48hrs. When I came to fit the new valve another lesson was learned, these valves are directional and not necessarily marked on the outside to show this. Research showed that the steam should enter the valve body from beneath the valve seat and exit via the side port, so took the valve apart to confirm the direction of flow (see photo). I fitted the valve body and refitted the cleaned steam whistle, then refitted the rest of the globe valve. Having checked all the connections I refilled the boiler and reapplied pressure - no leaks, raised the pressure until the safety valve lifted at 60 psi, the pressure held steady in the boiler without further leaks, so I booked the boiler pressure test and steam test with my clubs boiler tester.

DBS88 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2020, 03:25:35 pm »

Next came the burner, to make sure it was giving a good flame, it was removed from the boiler. After a few minutes in a darkened room moving the gas jet back and forth to adjust the gas to air ratio, a decent clean burning flame was achieved. This would be my starting point for when the burner was back in the boiler.

The gas tank had been hand painted gloss black, when I went to refill it, gas sprayed out all over the place, I tried a different filling nozzle and still got the same result. On inspection it looked like paint was in and around the filling valve, so the paint was stripped from the gas tank and the gas filling valve replaced with a new one. Whilst the paint was being removed a serial number on the gas tank was revealed - if you recognise the manufacturer of this tank please do let me know?

Before refitting the burner the inside of the boiler flue was checked - all clean and most importantly dry.

The day of the boiler test was a nervous one for me, despite having checked and prepared the boiler, you just never know how the test will go. Anyway, my nerves were calmed with coffee and cake, while the clubs boiler testers got to work checking the boiler over and then pressure testing it. Now hats off and thank you to club boiler testers everywhere, without your time, enthusiasm and dedication to the role, none of of us could sail our steam boats, thank you. - Happy days the pressure test was passed so next came the steam test, now its a large capacity boiler so took what seemed an eternity to get up to pressure and for the safety valve to lift, thankfully at the right pressure. I was handed the paper work and set ready to be able to sail Steam Boat Lady Sarah on the clubs water, frustratingly that was Wednesday and the lockdown was due to start the next day, Thursday. Any way thats the work on the boiler complete for now.

Next I tried to find out more about the engine and the hull - it would appear that the hull may be a Modeen Hull? do you recognise it or know anything about it?

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2020, 04:13:50 pm »

Hi Dave, looking at the design of the boiler and the way the cross tubes are, I would put it at 1960's construction, and in my opinion that is not a gas tank, its a petrol tank for a vaporising blow lamp that has been converted, which would be right for the type and age of boiler. Just an observation 👍

rhavrane · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2020, 04:51:34 pm »

Bonjour,
2020 boilers are built on the same pattern

, one of my last horizontal boilers filmed, see at 6" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42a9CLfYG9I

KBIO · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2020, 06:37:32 pm »

Good evening!
DBS88 , I really enjoy your post and your smart approach with your new challenge.
No doubt that you'll end up with great satisfaction!

.... for the pleasure of all!

Thank you for sharing.

Kind regards.

DBS88 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2020, 09:13:43 pm »

Thinking about the hull and having read another thread on MBM about Modeen Hulls, a fellow Mayhemer, Longbuild, posted pictures of his lovely Winderemere Steam Launch there, so contacted him to find out if he could add to the story. He has only seen one other at an exhibition, and the owner of that boat was also seeking info on Modeen Hulls so info appears to be as rare as hens teeth!! Anyway, here is a photo of the other Modeen Hull Steam launch - Lady Ann.

I also realised that I had not actually put the boat in the bath to check for leeks, so, put that right earlier, and thankfully the interior was bone dry after an hours floatation.

Heres a couple of shots of the hull interior with the engine and boiler removed to see if that helps further with the hull identification.

DBS88 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2020, 04:23:15 pm »

With the boiler maker and capacities known the next step was to confirm the details for the steam engine, who made it and what was its capacity? I emailed photos to a couple of Mayhemers and Ooyah/2 (George) replied very quickly to confirm that the engine is a powerful Blackgates V Twin Double Acting Oscillating Engine with a bore of 9/16 inches and a stroke of 5/8 inches. I was hopeful that it would run ok, visually it looked fine and physically it turned over easily and felt ok, so I chose not to disassemble it for now, but to wait til I could steam the boiler on the bench and run the engine to see how it performed.

So with the steam plant out of the boat, I took the chance to check the prop shaft, I removed the prop, the lock nut and washer and then slid the shaft out from the inside of the boat. All looked to be in good order, bright, shiny and still lubricated. Looking at the prop, (2 inches dia), it has a steep pitch, but there was also plenty of room for a much larger prop. So with such a good boiler capacity and a powerful engine I reached for the PropShop catalogue to see what was available, but first I needed to know what thread was on the prop shaft. I measured the the outside dia - 0.176 inches and then used some thread gauges to find the thread pitch. The closest size was 4.5mm with a 0.8 pitch but that did not appear to be a standard thread so was dismissed. The next option considered was 3/16 by 32 since 32 tpi gauge also fitted. By chance I have a 4 inch m5 thread prop so thought I would try that, whilst a bit loose as you might suspect, the metric pitch was correct and the prop screwed all the way on. Unsure what threads were commonly used for propshafts I contacted Simon Higgins of PropShop who promptly replied that it was likely to be a 2 BA thread, and he confirmed that he could supply a prop with 2 BA thread so happy days. Next I found a 2 BA Die and tried that, it was indeed a very good fit so 2 BA it is (0.185 inches and 31.4 tpi). Having learned from this forum that steam engines work best turning large props, with low revs to give long run times by preserving steam, I though I would upgrade the prop. The previously mentioned 4 inch prop does fit just, but frankly looks wrong and the 2 inch prop looks too small, so what size blade prop can this engine sensibly turn?

KNO3 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2020, 09:41:54 pm »

As you already said, steam engines like large props. Start with the largest prop you can fit and do a test on the lake. If you can, take several propellers with you at the lake and see which gives you the best performance.
If you are not after speed, but would like a slower boat which is more easily controlled, try with a smaller propeller.

DBS88 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 12, 2020, 02:13:28 pm »

I know that my cheddar puffin engine turns a 3 inch steam prop well on my steam tug, so, I am thinking a 4 blade 80mm prop will work well with this boat and be a good compromise for speed and duration?

Have know fired up the boiler to try the engine under steam. It ran very well both forwards and backwards so thats a relief. There are some steam leaks, they seem to be mostly from the steam control forward and reverse valve, so when its all cool will take apart, clean and reassemble.

ooyah/2 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2020, 08:14:03 pm »

Dave
Oscillating engines are inclined to have some steam leaks especially from the cylinder faces but your engine as seen running there appears to be very little steam escape and the amount of little steam bulbs on the face of the control valve is very acceptable and I would leave well alone. It will probably seal itself off over time as the steam coming thro" will have steam oil in it and that will help to seal it off.

It's not often that you see an oscillating engine running without any steam leaks at the cylinder faces I am assuming that the lubricator has good quality steam oil in it and not some Auto oil.
Also these engines like to work on steam pressures between 30 - 40 p.s.i. and will slow down when under load in the water so I would advise you not to run at 60 p.s.i. which your boiler has been tested too, although it's tested to 60 p.s.i. you don't need to run the engine at that pressure.

George.

DBS88 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:26:17 am »

George, thank you for the support and advice. I cleaned the lubricator out and filled it with new steam oil, its a heavy steam oil, smells fabulous. I have been using a lighter steam oil to lubricate the bearings and put a drop where the cylinders meet the frame before running. I will have to play with the gas and steam valves as I learn how this particular set up runs, so that when its running it keeps to 45 psi, either that or I will fit an attenuator valve?

rhavrane · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2020, 01:02:34 pm »

Bonjour Dave,
I like using all my steam machines at about 30 PSI, it is quite enough, saves autonomu let steam wet for part of lubrication and my oscillating ones leak a little bit less.

If 95 % of my steam plants have a whistle (that helps to drop the pressure), 95 % of them have also a gas attenuator (also perhaps misnamed gas regulators i.e "régulateur de pression de gaz" in French associated with "détendeur de gaz") because to my opinion they bring comfort and security. Furthermore, I prefer if possible double diaphragms ones, more smooth.

Will tuned, they allow you to let the boat stopped for a while on the pond without any risk and save gas.

I buy most of mines to French manufacturers but would kindly suggest you to have a glance to Microcosm ones :
http://www.microcosm-engine.com/p5-automatic-boiler-pressure-regulator-p-156.html#.X66A1chKjIU

I have several of them, examples : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc8bITIar2U
Exemple of a JMC one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDF7jQmvvRo

And I do not evoke the RC safety gas valve, also mandatory to my opinion for more security.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCgLBAxieNU

DBS88 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2020, 05:16:49 pm »

Raphaël thank you for the tips and for sharing the videos, it is appreciated.

Have today used some washing up liquid and warm water to clean the hull inside and out, once the inside was dry I used the last of some satin lacquer to give a more easily wiped clean finish to the paint work, since steam engines inevitably leak oil and water over the interior. The varnished finish on the exterior planking came up well just soap and water so will later enhance with some bees wax polish.

Hopefully will be putting the steam plant back in over the next couple of days, but will run it on the bench a couple more times before doing so.

KNO3 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 13, 2020, 07:23:53 pm »

The hull looks much better inside now

rhavrane · « **Reply #17 on:** November 13, 2020, 07:26:37 pm »

Bonjour Dave,
So clean currently... I would kindly suggest you to add a slice of cork under the steam plant to protect a little bit the hull and its paint [/size]of the heat.

TheLongBuild · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2020, 10:24:00 am »

Looking at the pictures again, I wonder if they actually made 2 hulls , virtually the same but the bow being slightly different or could be altered when building.

DBS88 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2020, 06:14:16 pm »

Longbuild, thank you for sharing the composite photo, I have been looking at the shape of the hulls, the interior ribbing and the cabin, they look so similar apart from the final detail at the bow. I have yet to find any Modeen plans for this style of boat so still can't say for sure if it is a Modeen Hull other than its so similar to yours and to the other one (Lady Ann) that was exhibited.

Have run the boiler and engine again today, I increased the spring pressure holding the steam valve together and to the springs holding the cylinders to the mainframe by turning the securing nuts a couple of turns. As you can see now no steam leaking from the steam valve. Also virtually none from the cylinder faces after the initial pop pop and lumpy running on start up as the condensed water made its way through the system and the steam warmed things up. After a few moments it settled down to run very smoothly and quietly, so I am very happy. Last job to fix is a steam leak from the oil separator that showed up on todays run, so will wait for it to cool down and explore what needs to be done. Then will give it a final clean, a check over and one last run on the bench before installing it back in the boat.

KBIO · « **Reply #20 on:** November 14, 2020, 06:27:53 pm »

Hello!
It worth to put everything out and go for a total overhaul with good cleaning!
A good lesson , I have to think of!

[size=78%]Thanks.[/size]
Regards.

DBS88 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 15, 2020, 10:35:34 am »

Here is a link to a video of the engine running https://youtu.be/7G6-nOSv9Us under steam

rhavrane · « **Reply #22 on:** November 15, 2020, 11:19:13 am »

Bonjour Dave,
Your steam plant runs perfectly, You just have now to measure its autonomy to have safe navigations as I do not see any gas regulator/attenuator or other safety system, just uin case (based on my own expeience which ended to the hospital

)

KNO3 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2020, 03:01:28 pm »

Quote from: DBS88 on November 15, 2020, 10:35:34 am

Here is a link to a video of the engine running https://youtu.be/7G6-nOSv9Us under steam

Hi David, your steam plant works very well. What pressure are you running at? When you ran it full speed the sound suggested to me that the cylinders started lifting from the port face, but I might be wrong.
These oscillators usually like to run at lower pressures, up to 2 bar. In my experience, if you run at pressures of 3 bar or more, the cylinders start lifting from the port faces and steam is lost. This can be overcome by tightening the springs, but only at the cost of increased friction.

DBS88 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2020, 08:01:49 pm »

Hi, in the video the boiler was running at about 30psi.

Its time now to look at the electrics so have just quickly put in a receiver to test the servos out with, only to find the battery in the transmitter was flat (joys of lockdown and not using it), so its on charge now.

Whilst waiting to get some juice in the battery thought I would have a quick play with another project that some of you will know I have discussed before - remote monitoring of boiler levels. So have been working with a fellow on monitoring of boilers and between us this is our starting point - a miniature cctv camera to see if it could be used to live stream the water level in the boiler along with the boiler pressure. So thought I would share with you this rough and ready installation as proof of concept - now needs to go out on the lake - range is quoted in Kilometres so anywhere on the lakes I sail at should not be a problem. As you can see the picture is pretty good, just need to move the camera to a higher location and a bit more to the left to get a better view of the pressure gauge.

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Author Topic: Steam Launch Restoration - Modeen Hull? (Read 12529 times)