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[jpdenver]

COOLING SYSTEM

Do I need one?
As a Steam Guy, I never had to worry about a cooling pump and related stuff. 

So the kit included a drive train that included 2 - 6V Brushed Motors - 500 series size. 
The only markings on them is the name Johnson,  no models numbers. 

They also included a pump and tubing and copper coils. 

Do I need the pump? 

I am thinking that at "scale speed" this craft is not speed boat. 
(I am not going to tow a water skiing Barbie Doll behind it.) 

So When do you need a cooling system? 

Where is the best place for inlet?    For outlet? 

Does the pump work best "pushing" the water thru the motor coils?(In front of the coils) 
Or "pulling" the water thru the coils? 

Where do you pull power from?   Just tap off the Motor leads? 
or run it continuous.     

What happens if you run off the motor leads and you put it in reverse? 
Do you just not worry about it because it is only for a short time? 

Am I over thinking this? 

I look forward to my readers comments and expertise in this matter. 

Thanks for reading.
Stay Safe 

Jim Pope
JPDenver
Denver, Colorado USA



 

[SailorGreg]

Jim, I would be very surprised if a model like this needed water cooling - and if it did, there is likely something amiss with the motor/speed controller/propeller combination.  That said, if you want to fit it, I would run a separate supply from the battery to the pump, which should be fairly close to the water inlet and "push" the water through the cooling system.  Water inlets are normally just behind the propeller to help push the water round the system, but if that is a self priming pump then that is less important.  (To see if it is self priming, set it up with a power supply and a short length of tube on the inlet dangling into a bowl of water. Switch it on and if the water starts flowing, it's self priming.)  if you want to be clever you can fit a digital switch to the pump supply that lets you turn the cooling on and off while afloat (and stops the pump running continuously whether the boat is in the water or not).  The outlet can go anywhere, but ideally somewhere that the real boat has an outlet.  If there are exhausts in the transom, these are a suitable outlet.

But as I said, it really shouldn't need it.

Coming along very nicely, I am a sucker for varnished mahogany!   

Greg

[jpdenver]

Thanks for your reply Greg.
I was beginning to think that I did not have an interesting thread,
as most of the activity on this forum seems
to be around the Fairey Crafts and their variants. 


 I agree that the cooling pump seems a bit of overkill. 
So I decided to not use the pump (save it for a Chris Craft coming up) 
but I am going to put the coils around the motors to act as a "Heat Sink". 
(Keeping the vents open to airflow of course)

I am switching between Decking and Hull,  waiting of a little warmer weather to paint the
hull (30 - 40 degrees F outside these days) 

So I worked on the pre-paint touches,  like portholes. 

Thanks for reading.
Jim

[Perkasaman2]

Keep up the good work. A silent majority is normal. I lurk in the background on Mayhem and enjoy all the builds. 

[SailorGreg]

I was beginning to think that I did not have an interesting thread,

You have over 2,000 "views" Jim - I can assure you that's not all me!

 

[ChrisF]

Hi Jim

Whilst I'm firmly in the Fairey camp    I often read your thread. Like most other folks I don't say anything unless I've got something worthwhile or relevant to say.


Like Greg I would say that cooling is not required.


Chris

 

[madwelshman]

Another quiet lurker her Jim 


Re the cooling for the motors. You said you are going to fit the cooling coils onto the motors anyway, so if you find that things are getting warmer than you are happy with, you can always add the fitting, pump etc and connect them up. If you don't find you need them, then there's no issue with them being on there.


Keep up the excellent work.


Will

[jpdenver]

Thanks to all for the cheering up.  Chalk it up to isolation. 

Back to the build.
Working on prepping the hull for painting. 
 Getting the power plants fitted. 
Started with the shafts and stuffing tubes. 
It took a while to get the angles right. 

I also had to make a choice.  The kit shipped with two rudders.
and the article and plans show two as well,  UNTIL -
you read the whole article and see where Dave Metcalf talks
about making the initial mistake of putting two, only to have the
owner of the Bluebird call his attention to the fact that there was only one rudder.
Dave went thru the process of filling the dual holes and re-drilling for a single. 

I decided to avoid the process of correcting the mistake in the first place
and just drill the single hole, only to have it come out the bottom about an 1/8th inch off.
Darn it.   
So here are pics of today's activities. 

Thanks for reading.Jim






 

[Backerther]

Hi jpdenver;


I have read your thread of water cooling for your scale ship today.
And like other comments on this point, I don't think it necessary to add the water cooling to your ship.
Because you may I suppose not let her sail so fast as to run the motor at higher speed/revolution like speed boats.
The following pics are small 55cm cabin cruiser equipped with a 540 class motor with a hand- made water cooling coil
to cope with over-heat tendency, especially in summer.
The system contributed successfully and largely to cool the motor.
For your information as follows;
1;hand-made coil
2;brass base for the coil to effectively release the heat
3;attach the motor
4;overall view
5;water outlet
6;water inlet
7;cooling water is seen on the portside.. can you see that...?
8;Sailing without fear of over-heat even in the mid-summer at full speed!


Please enjoy the build without fear of over-heat anxiety.

[roycv]

Hi been there as well finding the rudder hole slightly off centre.  Bearing in mind my own mistakes I now drill smaller holes and move them across with a round file.

Made about 30+ model boats and yachts now and I know how to hide my errors!  Interesting when I restore someone elses build and see how much filler lurks beneath the paint and a careful inspection reveals quite a lot of errors.  So I don't feel too bad about my own mistakes.

However when I see a varnished planked hull where all the planks are visible then I know I am looking at expertise!
All the best
Roy

[jpdenver]

Thanks again for all the comments.  Made a few decisions.
1. no pump, just coils to aid cooling (actually I made that decision yesterday).2. do not sweat the 1/8 inch on the rudder.  It is still in line with the keel,
   just in line with one side rather than the dead center. 
  I can only see the move attempt making a bigger mess. 
  (and the rudder is underwater anyway). 

So that being settled, I finished epoxying the stuffing tubes in place along with
the Prop Brackets ( if that is what they are called).  It took a little adjusting to
get the shafts straight and rotating easy. 

The prop shafts and motor shafts line up pretty well.  But once the couplings are
added I may need to shim up the motor mounts to align everything.
I should be able to get the hull finally ready to paint by Friday - the weather is
supposed to be sunny and over 50F. 

[jpdenver]

So I have another decision to make, and opinions are welcome. 

The decks, and planks, and caulk. 

The decks on the Bluebird are teak.  The kit does a great job of providing a
sub-deck with lines traced (low power laser). 
 Then they give you the planks pre-cut, with the caulk space accounted for. 

Then for caulk, they give a sheet of walnut veneer.  The builder is expected to
cut strips out of the sheet and place the strips vertically between planks. 

Once the glue dries, and the sanding is over, the results are that the caulk strips
are slightly mottled in color. 

I have one set finished with top coats, and I am not sure.   

I have planked other decks with small styrene strips and find that these give a very crisp edge. 

There are a number of deck surfaces to be done. 
and I have done the smaller parts with the veneer,
but I am thinking of doing the large sections with the styrene strips. 

So - opinions? 

Thanks for reading, 
Jim

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, you are correct, caulking when Bluebird was built would typically have been black which might have weathered to a very dark grey. End on wood grain doesn't really look right.

Colin

[jpdenver]

Colin,
I agree that the styrene strips look better. 

After a couple of coats of finish, the smaller pieces look ok,
but do not have the crisp look of the black. 

So I will be using the black strips on the larger decks.
I did the rear deck, then attached the side "mouldings" on it.
Almost ready for finish application.

Thanks for reading.
Jim

[jpdenver]

Ar the same time I located the color border on the hull for the red anti-fouling and the white. 

Used automotive spray paint, very fast drying.

I will add a black stripe at the border, and then a couple of coats of clear. 

 

[jpdenver]

The Rear Deck.
It is raised up on a platform. 
On the real Bluebird that is over the owner's cabin. 

On the model, the deck platform is removable. 
It fits over a "collar" mounted to the deck. 

All of this I figured out by playing:
"What the heck is this for?"  with the
remaining pieces of the kit. 

Some Pics:

[jpdenver]

I started to play with the electrical side of all this. 

Question:

Do all 6 volt brushed motors squeal like a pig? 
The noise seems to be electrical in nature, independent of the actual movement.Any way around this?   
Try another brand of motor?
Thanks for any advice.
Jim

[jpdenver]

OK,

I tried a better ESC.    No more pigs. 

Can you run two motors off one ESC?
Thought I would ask before I tired it. 

I would assume that the current maximums would have to be tracked. 

Options? 

Jim

[derekwarner]

Hullo Jim.......please, I have just about ZERO knowledge of electronics, however understand a little of control circuitry for Servo Control valves as used in hydraulic circuits in full size Warship Missile Launchers    & Gun mounts 


A part of the PIG Noise you describe is I believe from the square wave pulsation voltage being shunted on and off at a reasonable frequency across the face of the carbon brushes & the communtator segments


I am sure one of our Electronic savy members [DaveM] will correct me or and explain why quality ESC are less prone to this noise [I have a number of ACTion speed/direction controllers for twin motors that do not display any real level of this noise you describe]

Derek

[jpdenver]

Derek,
Thanks for the comments.  And the support and guidance over the past few years.
I forget that most of the others on here are in the UK and fast asleep while I am
sitting here with my wife watching TV and posting.
I believe it to be tomorrow morning down under in your neighborhood. 
I really do not have the grasp of all the pieces of the various motor choices.
Most of my crafts are "slow and steady" rather than speed boats.  Steam does that.
So now that I am trying my hand at electric drives, I can not just reach out and pick up
a valve or machine a piece I need. 

Where I get lost is in the area of specifications. 
What are the relevance of "Turns"  when it comes to motors? 
I get the 6 and 12 Volt thing, and I understand current draw  (somewhat).
but picking the right ESC and matching the operational settings seems to be elusive.

More to come,
Jim

[jpdenver]

The build so far. 

The hull is finished and painted.  Not the greatest job, a few uneven spots, but
as I needed to paint outside and the last three days were above 60F and we areexpecting the temp to dip below 30F for the next weeks, well - I painted it. 

I used automotive paint - red below, white above and then a couple of coats of clear. 

This allowed me to start the planning of placement of the internals of the craft. 
Which led me to the realization that I had to plan the decks and cabin assembly
in such a way as to allow access for repair.   

The instructions in the kit are now focusing on the railings, but left out all the details
on the attaching of decks or any other advice.

I find that Dave Metcalf has much better details in his article.  It is plain to see that the
kit manufacturer used Dave's drawings as the basis for their design, as some of the mistakes
he made show up in the kit design.  Dave's articles carry the corrections but the kit builder missed them.

Things they missed - 

1. The number of rudders. 
2. The number of stanchions on the rear deck.and when it comes to the rear deck, the kit builders made it to slide over a "collar",
but totally blew it as all the railings would get in the way. 
The railings connect the upper to the lower rear decks. 

So - After numerous dry runs, I decided that I would make it so the cabin 
would be removable for access to the battery and switches etc. 

And then I added strategically placed blocks of wood that will allow me to hold the decks down
with small screws and still be removable if access is needed for repair.

So here are some pics of my explorations into deck building. 



 

[jpdenver]

And a few more to get caught up to date.

[Stuw]

Hi Jim,


I have enjoyed reading through your build so far. I am a newbie to this forum and only recently getting back to refurbishing my 26 year old Lesro Javelin wooden speedboat. My one and only build that’s been languishing in my parents attic for decades.


I’m enjoying seeing people like yourself explaining their build issues and resolving them with advice on here. I’ve never attempted anything like this with planking but it’s great to see!


Out of interest am I correct in thinking the “caulk” between the planks ended up as black styrene strips? I am considering incorporating some styrene on my boat but am concerned about bonding it effectively.

[jpdenver]

Hi Stu,
Welcome to the forum.  I am a relative newbe here too.  (6 yrs or so) 
So I agree that there are many "tricks of the trade" 

Yes - It ended up being the Styrene Strips.  I left the lighter Veneer strips in place on the smaller decks. 
I am not so "xxxxx" as to rip all that apart just so everything is the same.     

When it comes to planking, I have my way of doing it which has worked for me.But understand that Denver Colorado is "high desert" with no humidity.  (less than 50% most of the year).When I buy a kit, I let it sit for at least 6 months to dry out. 

So -  For deck planking. 
1. I use a harder type of wood if not in a kit.  Here we have Basswood, which I am told is similar to Lime.  as opposed to something like balsa. 
2. If not using a "caulk" - I put on a light coat of sanding sealer - (actually I use a water based poly) on each plank.      then I use a black heavy duty "sharpie" pen on each edge. 
3. If using a caulk, I use styrene strips - http://www.mackproductsrc.com  look in accessories.    I am sure someone else in the UK sells them,    they come in both black and white. 
4. Here is where I differ from others - I use a "Medium - Gap Filling CA glue"  and I have at hand some pointed tweezers that are very good at 
   keeping things down - the medium ca glue takes a little bit to set.  I do not use any accelerator. 
5. After finishing the gluing I let it sit - under weight - for 24 hours.
6. Then I sand.  If the styrene is higher than the planks, I use 80grit to get started, then 120, then 180.   Finally 320 when I get to the deck, just to
    remove any glue marks. 
7.  Then - if not already sealed, I apply the "sanding sealer" -  And use a 1000 grit scotchbrite pad to scuff. 
8.  Finally I apply REAL SPAR VARNISH.  I get mine from a boat supplier on the east coast.  It is not a urethane product, takes up to 48 hours to full set.    Scuff with the pad, apply another coat or two.
And finally - let the thing set as the finish can be still soft for up to a week. 

oh - and use a "tack cloth".
So far this has worked well for me.  (But your mileage may vary.) 

More to come. 

Regards to all, 

Jim Pope
Denver, CO USA 

[jpdenver]

So the next thing on my list is to finish the all the internal wiring. 

For some reason, kits seem to always leave out lights. 

So I have three areas of lighting to plan. 

1. The pilot house.  Needs the navigational lights on the sides. 
     and also diffuse lighting inside.   You can not see out the windows at night if you are too bright inside. 

2. The Masts need lights.  and I need to fit the wires and some type connection near the mast. 

3. Cabin lights.  These need to light the fore and aft cabins, via the portholes.  but since there are no
   cabin interiors, just the portholes, I am going to place some type of frosted paper just inside each.
   that will diffuse the light, and you won't see just empty frames. 

I am still waiting on one ESC, but the wire harness is ready for it.  I am just using a "Y"harness off the
receiver.  I can only fit a single battery pack in the space,  I picked a 5000MAH NiMH pack.  7.4 volts. 

I have a separate voltage regulator to supply power to the receiver and the LEDs. 
I blocked the power lead from the ESCs and added two switches. 
One for the receiver, one for the ESCs.


Pics.