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Author Topic: Covid vaccination  (Read 113117 times)

malcolmfrary

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #425 on: April 24, 2021, 07:58:28 pm »

Absolutely false.  It is over five percent for those of advanced age with multiple comorbidities and lower than one percent for people under fifty and healthy.
I have no idea what the figures are in Canada, but mine are UK based.  1 in 35 is 2.86%, so between 5 and 1 percent.  Probably biased higher since the older tend to be in poorer condition and have had the opportunity to gain more pre-existing conditions.
Still a long long way from the 1 in 1000000 chance of a fatally bad reaction.


Quote
Hi I believe 87% of all statistics are wrongly applied.  Many poor sods don't know how to work out percentages let alone the other stuff.Roy

Is that from the 91.5% of statistics that are made up on the spot?
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #426 on: April 24, 2021, 08:40:48 pm »

Hi Malcolm I used to look into computer problems in companies for a major computer company.  I could always produce a set of 'better' stats from the same source the others produced.  I would resolve issues working the other way as well showing that our own stats were not what they appeared. 

I had very interesting couple of years doing this, then as equipment reliability improved and started being more distributed I think I ran out of problems!  Ended up going to more M&S stores than my wife, that was nice though.
regards
Roy
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NickelBelter

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #427 on: April 25, 2021, 11:04:28 am »

I have no idea what the figures are in Canada, but mine are UK based.  1 in 35 is 2.86%, so between 5 and 1 percent.  Probably biased higher since the older tend to be in poorer condition and have had the opportunity to gain more pre-existing conditions.
Still a long long way from the 1 in 1000000 chance of a fatally bad reaction.


Is that from the 91.5% of statistics that are made up on the spot?


You initially stated EVERYBODY getting Covid has a 2.8 percent chance of dying, which is totally false. 

Divide the number of lung cancer cases by population and you get a surprisingly high rate that suggests everyone should be getting screened regularly... of course, these cases are clustered in smokers and people exposed to noxious gases on a regular basis, and the average person has little to no reason to fear lung cancer. 
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #428 on: April 25, 2021, 03:39:03 pm »



You initially stated EVERYBODY getting Covid has a 2.8 percent chance of dying, which is totally false. 

Divide the number of lung cancer cases by population and you get a surprisingly high rate that suggests everyone should be getting screened regularly... of course, these cases are clustered in smokers and people exposed to noxious gases on a regular basis, and the average person has little to no reason to fear lung cancer. 

A horse  having odds of 35 to 1 in a race does not mean that it will win every 35th race.  Odds are a statistical expression of chance.  That particular horse will likely never win a race.  If it had a field of particularly poor horses, the statisticians (or "bookies") would alter its odds accordingly to keep the number of winning punters in check.
The overall odds are for everybody.  Just as some horses are faster than others, so there will be a spread of liability to a particular outcome which will be different for every single individual.  That is in the nature of statistics.
Look up "standard deviation" and "normal spread".
If the numbers have been consistently and honestly gathered, the overall chances indicated will be true, but there is zero chance of saying what will happen to any particular individual.  Any numbers gathered are only as good as the gathering mechanism. 
A year ago, there was precious little organisation, numbers were much reduced because cases were missed or not recorded resulting in an early relaxation which came back to bite us October through January, and that was after effective treatments were developed.  The various factors of voluntary precautions and the vaccine have reduced the numbers of new cases, and the better knowledge of treatment is maybe cutting the bad after effects.  Plus there is a reducing pool of people who can be affected, but on the other hand, at the moment there is an increasing number of people who have been vaccinated and are thus perfectly capable of picking up the virus and carrying it around to spread onward.  Not medically carriers, but transporters.
There is still the risk of another spike in numbers.  What big infection numbers mean is that NHS resources that should be being used for all of the "everyday" problems are diverted to covid treatment.  Diverting resources away from those everyday jobs must mean that people can die from lack of treatment.  Are they covid related? 
Knowing that I am in the high risk category from the infection, the one in a million chance of a bad (fatal) after effect from the vaccine was for me a no-brainer against a 3 or so percent chance of a really bad outcome from catching the disease.  And the very high likelihood of what is left of my life expectancy having its quality severely reduced should I go down with it.
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kinmel

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #429 on: April 25, 2021, 10:35:20 pm »

ONS statistics show that the older you are the greater your life expectancy !
The charts show that a 21 year old male today will have an average life expectancy of 86 years.
My life expectancy as a 76year old male is 89 years.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/articles/lifeexpectancycalculator/2019-06-07
I am always pleased when someone my age dies, statistically it increases my life expectancy.
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derekwarner

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #430 on: April 25, 2021, 10:43:13 pm »

As kinmel says......

"ONS statistics show that the older you are the greater your life expectancy !"

Love it ......Derek O0 {-) %%


[The same 'assessment computing package' calculates me as 71, is likely to fall off the perch @ 86  >>:-( ]


The machine is statically broken..........try inputting any age from 70 to 75 and you get the same answer = 86  :o
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #431 on: April 25, 2021, 11:40:01 pm »

I shall pass on this 'statistic' to my friend Guy, he is 101 and looking forward to another birthday in June.  Are we talking really big numbers here?

Roy
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Baldrick

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #432 on: April 26, 2021, 08:38:40 am »




  I thought In was teetering with only a tenuous grip on my perch, but this website tells me I have time for 6 more boat builds.. Now, what next ! %%
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #433 on: April 26, 2021, 08:38:54 am »

As kinmel says......

"ONS statistics show that the older you are the greater your life expectancy !"

Love it ......Derek O0 {-) %%


[The same 'assessment computing package' calculates me as 71, is likely to fall off the perch @ 86  >>:-( ]


The machine is statically broken..........try inputting any age from 70 to 75 and you get the same answer = 86  :o

As I remember it actuarial charts used for calculating annuities show that once you reach somewhere in your 80's you life expectancy remains constant at around 4 years. So at 80 it is 4 years but if you survive to 84 then you still have a 4 year life expectancy. Whatever age you are (80+) you have an average 4 years left.
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #434 on: April 26, 2021, 09:01:17 am »

Hello Baldrick, can you beat the statistics by building model boats in parallel?  Two at a time could make that 12!  A good exercise for the brain.
I find that most 'statistics' in our house are controlled by my other half (I am not talking Jekyl and Hyde here).
I checked out her life expectancy which is about the same as mine but due to the age difference there is an overlap of 5 years.  Not that there has been much overlap lately owing to her interpretation of S-D.
Cheers for now
Roy
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #435 on: April 26, 2021, 09:04:20 am »

Averages are made from individuals.  It is up to us as individuals to make the figures wrong by being awkward and living longer.
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #436 on: April 26, 2021, 09:15:55 am »

I will drink to that!
Long live Living longer!
Roy
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warspite

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #437 on: April 26, 2021, 09:23:23 am »

Sounds like you’re trying the pickled product route  {-)
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BrianB6

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #438 on: April 26, 2021, 09:39:11 am »

I will drink to that!
Long live Living longer!
Roy

Shouldn't that be "Live long and prosper"
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jaymac

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #439 on: April 26, 2021, 10:44:22 am »

I'll stick with the old Frankie Laine  song forecast I'm Gonna Live Till I Die. It's never been wrong
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Taranis

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #440 on: April 26, 2021, 11:10:44 am »

We just got a message that our second jab appointment is brought forwards 4 weeks to this Friday.


I think I'll have it in the other shoulder this time  %%


Every day above ground is a good one  :-))
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #441 on: April 26, 2021, 11:27:55 am »

Quote
I think I'll have it in the other shoulder this time

Which leaves only one obvious place for the Autumn booster  ;D

Colin
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Taranis

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #442 on: April 26, 2021, 11:58:18 am »

 {-)    :embarrassed:
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ANDY
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warspite

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #443 on: April 26, 2021, 11:59:56 am »

Ahh!, but which cheek is he going to turn  %)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #444 on: April 26, 2021, 12:12:38 pm »

Neither, it will be a French vaccine administered in the traditional way....

Colin
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kinmel

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #445 on: April 26, 2021, 03:07:34 pm »

A phone call at 6pm last night gave us a 10am appointment today for our second jab, exactly 11 weeks after the first.
Llandudno is a mass vaccination centre using only the Pfitzer vaccine and the queue was mostly people aged about 20 getting their 1st jab.
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John W E

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #446 on: April 26, 2021, 04:02:44 pm »

hi there, phone call on Saturday and 30 minutes later the nurses arrived with the 2nd lot of injections at the door - me, the Mrs and me son all had our 2nd jab.  This time we werent too bad just a burning arm where the jab went and aches and pains - but, the first time I was okay but the wife and son were ill - they were bad in bed for a couple of days. %)


john
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #447 on: April 26, 2021, 04:08:00 pm »

Mrs B and I have our second ones tomorrow.

Colin
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #448 on: April 28, 2021, 09:08:49 pm »

2nd jab next week.   O0
Where are all the vaccines going? The UK population is around 65 million which means that 2 doses needs 130 million plus waste so 150 million doses should be plenty.
We have ordered 100m Oxford, 100m Pfizer, 100m Valneva, 60m Glaxo, 60m Novavax, 50m Curevac, 30m Jannsen, 17m Moderna. That is a total of 517 million.
As if 517 million doese ordered for 150 million required wasn't enough another 60 million doses were ordered today for use only on the most vulnerable in the autumn. These are not updated vaccines but more of what we have already had.

What are we doing with them all?
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kinmel

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #449 on: April 28, 2021, 09:22:27 pm »

The orders were not for delivery at once, but spread over time as production allowed.
At the time we placed orders no-one knew which vaccines would be successful.  This was not an attempt to pick one winner out of all the runners, it was a bet on all the runners to ensure you picked the winners.
Surplus vaccine will be shared globally at not cost to the recipient, via Covex.

The autumn order is for booster jabs, which may be different to deal with variants if necessary.
What we need now is massive U.K. investment in strategic manufacturing - vaccines, medicines, PPE, medical equipment etc to avoid blockades.
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